Not Quite Right features discussions that are unfiltered and uncensored,
and may include themes that are inappropriate for younger listeners.
Also, I swear a lot.
Something doesn't seem quite right.
Welcome's not quite right.
My name is Ed and I'm Amanda.
I've got a question for you.
Amanda.
Go on.
You're right, That is just a taste of things to come.
We're talking about adolescence later on in the episode.
Just for context.
We're going into this.
We've.
We've been sitting here talking **** for two hours before we even.
Yeah, basically hit record.
And you're a little bit tipsy.
I've actually had four glasses of wine.
Could be a little bit of an issue.
No, it's great.
We'll get through it.
I love it.
It'll be nice to be the sense for 1/4.
You just gotta catch up.
Yeah, I probably will.
Let's be real.
I'll do it to be taught us in their situations.
So we'll be talking about adolescence later on in the show.
But first we've got some news.
We've got some Q&A.
People have sent us voicemail messages.
They've sent us Twitter questions.
So we'll be talking about questions.
So it should be fun.
Yes, it should be fun.
I'm excited and I really love when people join in our little conversation.
But first, a little bit of a housekeeping.
We've got the not quite right prize for flesh Fiction, which is almost on.
It's like final run now.
It's been running for six months.
Or I know we've set it up so early just knowing we would need time.
Yeah.
And I feel like we've sort of just the time was more for us than it was.
But now I feel like people are gonna be freaking out.
Everyone's like, oh, yeah, I've been meaning to get to that,
Including me.
Including me as well.
I'm I've finally gotten my idea.
I've put some words together.
I've got a couple of paragraphs.
I've got a concept.
OK, the only time I'm writing it is when I I
take my daughter to tennis every Saturday morning and I sit in the car and write my
little ****** fiction.
So that's why.
Well, we just saw a post today from one of our
flesh fiction future entrants saying that she was about to sit down and write her
story when her daughter, I believe, had Bluey started in the background.
Yeah, it's hard to get into that kind of mental
frame.
You know, you've got to separate yourself a little
bit, but not quite right.
Price for Flesh Fiction closes on the 24th of August, so yeah, it's coming up.
Yeah, about a month from now, depending on when this episode comes out.
There's still time, but I feel like it's got to the point
where it's like, okay, let's put some key to board here at this
point, especially if you really seriously like
want to win or do well, because that gives you time to edit,
share it, maybe if you're brave enough with someone
to help you out.
And I think that's enough time to like actually put something quite good
together if you knuckle down.
Come on, guys, we want some great stories.
We don't want last minute ********.
Come on, let's go.
So the not quite right prize for Flesh fiction is our free ****** short story
competition.
1500 words limit, $1000 in cash prizes, plus an array,
an assortment of spicy prizes.
Some might say a bevvy.
I don't know what is the, the collective noun of, like,
weird sex toys, but an arousal of an arousal of ****** if
you will.
Indeed.
I do feel they're a bit skewed, potentially the appeal of our prizes,
They are a little bit female skewed.
But yeah, there's something for everyone.
I feel that If you don't like ****** there's wine.
Yeah, there's money.
Men like monies.
Men like wine.
There's books.
Men like ****** I think as well.
Yeah.
Well, you know, hashtag not old man.
There's more than just ******.
There's vibrators, there's remote control vibrators.
There's something called a grinder, which I didn't know what that was,
but I've used my imagination.
I think I've figured it out.
Yeah.
You know what?
There isn't.
What of a jankle?
Ohh.
If you wanna know what that is, you'll have to listen to our Patreon
episode, which will air at some point once we get
the Patreon together.
Yeah, we're gonna store that one up.
That little combo, but how many we've we've got quite a few
entries already.
I think it's nearing about 200 is yeah, we're getting at least an entry a day and
have been this whole time.
I know people are starting to like actually knuckle down at this point
'cause they're realising that the deadline's coming up.
And I don't know about you, but I have been dipping in every now and
then.
We have a little read, Yep.
And see what's coming in.
But it's been ramping up 'cause I haven't been able to keep up with like all of the
new, No, I've been coming.
So I've just, I haven't actually read any for a little
while.
My toes and the in the pool, as they say.
And just to remind because we've had this question a few times about like how
explicit can I be and am I going to offend you?
Am I going to pull myself out of the running because because to pull myself.
Just for context, by the way, for those who haven't been listening in,
this is the innuendo jar, right?
Innuendo.
And the rule is that every time we make some sort of sexual innuendo,
we've got a Chuck a dollar in there.
So it's getting quite good now.
There's actually also a $20. 00 cash money in there.
Yeah, it's like a little swear jar, but for naughty jokes.
So anyway, just a reminder, you can be as explicit as you like,
as you're comfortable with.
There's no, no, no, no, no.
Go beyond your comfort zone.
Come on, people.
I mean, I think a lot of people are doing this
for the first time.
Like we've got a lot of flash fiction fans who are doing this for the first
time.
Or like early days.
I think you actually do have to go outside your comfort zone.
I think if you're writing what you're comfortable with,
it's probably not enough.
You think you really have to test yourself and say, you know what,
I'm actually going to put myself out there.
I'm going to say or write something that's potentially embarrassing or
potentially revealing about me and the way my brain works or whatever it is and
just trust that like it will be received well, you know what I mean?
Like trust that we get it, Trust that it's a story and you're
expressing yourself and we're all human beings.
I don't know.
I don't know if that makes sense, but like it's totally right.
And we do have a privacy policy.
So we're not going to reveal, you know, you know, you can choose a pen name.
We're not going to reveal your real name if you don't want us to.
If you want us to, we will.
But yeah, don't be afraid.
Don't go in there with like the fear of your friends and family going to find out
because we're going to tell them.
Because I think that that's the thing, right?
Like I think it's the I don't want my boss to read it or I don't want my mother
in law to read it.
That or my children.
Like, I get that, right?
You've got a certain level, like a boundaries that you want to set up.
I do get that.
But I think if you're like censoring yourself at all, that's a mistake.
I think you need to just invest in the story and then invest in like putting
yourself out there and delivering something that's like, you know,
achieves the desired outcome, if you will, you know, So that's my challenge.
Yeah.
And we do have a couple of rules.
Like there are some things around consent and you know, so on and so forth.
Check out the website, make sure you're, you've read those and you're OK with
those.
So there are a few taboos that we don't want to hit.
I want to clarify that too, because I have had like a couple of
questions on social media just to clarify that point.
So the main 2 rules are basically everybody needs to be an adult 18 plus,
and there needs to be consent in any sexual activity.
And I've had some people contact me to sort of say look like people want to
write about murder and stuff like no consent to being murdered or whatever.
It might be.
Like obviously stories are drama filled.
There might be consent, but it's like still there's manipulation
at play or these complex issues that are what makes stories interesting.
And just to be clear about those rules, I guess the point is more that we don't
want to be seen to glorify sexual violence,
like unwelcome and unwanted sexual violence in that way.
And we certainly don't want to be seen to be glorifying anything that is underage
or an, an entity that can't consent, like a dog or something like that.
You know, like that's, that's just an area that we're not
comfortable supporting.
And it's like these sort of moral grey areas where there's a little bit of
manipulation or these like we're not getting down into that nitty gritty.
We're not going to judge it on that basis.
It's more like, you know, an overt act of sexual violence on
someone.
Like that's what we're trying to avoid here.
And it's hard for us to lawyer this, this kind of language into a strict set
of rules, right?
So, but I think what we're trying to avoid is
fairly self explanatory and fairly obvious, like, you know,
underage and non consenting, you know, animals.
But if you're writing a fantasy about some random,
some space species that doesn't exist, but like, that's fine.
And if there's a bit of grey area, that's that's all OK.
You know, we want to avoid like the really
problematic stuff.
And so I think, yeah, if you just go into it in good faith,
basically on that basis, I think you'll be fine.
You don't need to like double check everything with us.
We're not going to be like going through with a fine tooth comb.
It's those big ticket items that we're trying to avoid.
So as long as you steer clear of those, you're going to be fine.
So what else have we got?
We've got Words on the Waves.
We came back from that about a month ago.
Yeah, just finished editing all of the episodes
as of the time of recording.
So if you're not subscribed already, just go to the website or search Not
Quite Right interviews on your podcast platform of choice and you'll see all our
interviews.
We did 12 interviews at Words on the Waves and had a lot of fun and spoke to
some really interesting people.
We spoke to Blanche del Puget.
We spoke to a little bit starstruck.
I had a bit of a, that was my favourite part of the whole
thing, the whole, I'm still mortified over that.
We spoke to Maxine Beneva Clark, yeah, a poet,
and saw her perform at the poetry slam, which was so much fun.
It was really, really fun.
I guess I've never done anything like that before.
And when I say done it, I mean, I didn't get up on the stage, but we,
we went in the audience and I don't know, I didn't know what to expect.
And really, really good.
And it's like a open mic night kind of situation.
People get up and just read their poems.
Clearly they've kind of prepared them and everything, but it's just, you know,
some people are experienced, some people are completely inexperienced
and they're getting up and having a go.
It was very inspiring, like, and the whole room just wants everyone to
succeed.
And it was a really nice, like, positive kind of creative.
Yeah.
Environment.
I love the authenticity of the, the moment, right?
Like they, they express themselves.
They, they like put themselves out there.
They they spilled it all onto the stage and people were very positive.
No one was like, this is like, ****.
It was, yeah, it was amazing.
Felt like a real safe space face.
Like I know that sounds like cheesy, but that's what it felt like to just get
up and just say whatever you wanted to say.
But also a lot of those, a lot of the performances,
a lot of the poems were just genuinely amazing.
They were great.
And also, like it exposed me to, and I wasn't aware of this,
but like a whole subculture of poultry slams on the Central Coast.
Like they were talking about events in different locations and.
But, you know, barbershop in a barbershop.
I don't know about any of that.
So that was really great to hear about.
Yeah.
I thought that was really cool.
And I, I guess it was funny as an outsider to
come in.
And I think Maxine noted this, but there's just like an artist off in
the corner, like painting.
Yeah.
Well, everyone's speaking as well.
It's an artist I'm familiar with.
In fact, if you've ever been to Erin Affair,
his artwork is, yeah, there's a big mural down where the
library is of a whale, and he was painting something very
similar that evening off in the corner with his spray cans and whatever.
It was very cool artwork that only really came together right at the end,
so it was kind of cool to watch.
But yeah, like you're just what's that guy doing
over there in the corner and he's just whipping up an artwork.
I'll tell you what though, I went to a lot of raves in the 90s and
it's actually a very similar situation.
There is a guy painting a whale in the corner.
It's just like the the mature, grown up version of a rave or something.
Brought me back a little bit.
OK, same.
But like, it's a lot of fun.
It was fun talking to our interviewees, like all of the authors or the
personalities we spoke to.
We had such a diverse range of topics.
We're talking about Aboriginal semiotics, we're talking about like false
imprisonment, true crime, so many diverse topics.
And we kind of, we had this really lovely room that words
and the waves put us in that was overlooking the beach.
It was really nice.
And just having people coming to that room and having no idea really who they
were until the last minute and then talking to them about whatever their
thing was, that was a lot of fun.
Plus the poultry slam.
Plus, as always, on the Friday night, there is Story Club.
And this year it was hosted by Usher Ginsburg.
Yeah.
So Story Club is like, basically people get up and tell true
stories from their life, kind of loosely attached to a theme.
And, you know, they're performing their stories.
And we've been each year that we've attended.
Yeah.
Words on the Waves.
And it's always a highlight.
But I found Osha's story, to me, particularly interesting.
Yes.
It sort of stuck with me, I guess, very fascinating.
And then there was a woman there as well, whose name escapes me now.
She's a local musician.
And her story, oh, my God, I haven't laughed that hard.
That's the mooing one.
So the mooing one, she was telling a childbirth story and
the she actually moved.
She's just like, I'm like, I moved when I get there.
I remember it distinctly.
I'm like, I've never felt more like a mammal in my
life than giving birth.
And so I was just very like, took me back, but so funny.
And it was until the next day, that or something.
And he's like, oh, yeah, I think I went to school with her.
I'm like, you didn't want to tell me that Like the
moment she stepped on stage or like, but yeah,
really fun stories and always a good time.
The there was just that one little problem, though, the issue of the dry bar.
The dry bar, like, what the ****?
The EFTPOS machine broke and we couldn't buy drinks and the guys at the bar could
not have given a single **** about the fact that the EFTPOS broke.
And we had a designated driver as well.
So it was me.
So I guess I shouldn't be complaining.
But.
And the other thing of Words on the Waves was that you ran a workshop.
Yeah, Yeah, it was really good fun.
And in fact, our friend Sarah Kennedy from all the way
across the other side of the world, Daredevil fame, of Daredevil fame,
a multiple Daredevil fame, was kind enough to send a friend along.
So a local friend, Jenny, who I met there, attended the workshop.
Hi, Jenny.
Hi, Sarah.
And it was actually all women, All women group.
And it was really, really fun to, I guess, just induct a new group of people into
our world of flash fiction.
That's what the workshops about.
Basically, it's just like the beginnings.
Like where do we start with flash fiction indoctrination into 100% indoctrination.
And I know at least one of the members, if not a couple,
will be participating in flesh fiction.
So I'm very excited about that and in the regular comp as well.
So welcome.
And I'm really excited to have you and I'm so glad that you're in our little
cult of Flash now.
And you did a an amazing job.
I sat there and watched the whole thing, judged me from afar.
Well, I didn't have any responsibilities.
I could just like soak it in.
It was a great session.
Great, good.
Did you feel really excited about writing Flash after I actually did, I was like,
wow, this sounds great.
I should really get into this.
We, I should really get into it, practise what I preach.
Exactly.
And I've actually got another workshop coming up, O2 Actually, yes.
Well, it's sort of, I guess not that official because I'm
going to deliver some workshops when the new Gosford Library opens.
Oh, and of course, like most developments, it's been delayed a little bit,
so we're just waiting for that to happen.
But yeah, I'm really excited to deliver the Start
Writing Flash Fiction workshop, but also another more advanced flash
fiction workshop at the library opening.
That should be cool.
Well, I've driven past that a few a few times.
Is it where is it?
No, it's it's opposite the current library.
Oh, OK, on the same way.
But it's fancy.
Like, yeah, looks like it's going to be fancy.
I'm excited and I'm keen to deliver this sort of more advanced one too,
because of course, most people I know are already into flash
fiction.
So just taking it up a notch a little as well will be good fun.
So if you're around, if you're in the region, you know,
Sydney to Newcastle kind of area, come along, join us.
Yeah, let me open this now.
I'll come on.
You're gonna sit.
I wanna, I wanna hear the tips.
No, tell tell me how to do this ****.
I don't know.
So other news, and this is a fair, this is a fairly big one for me, I think.
So I was looking at the list of our podcast releases in our little podcast
app, and I noticed that we're almost at 100.
Oh.
And so this is like counting all of our regular episodes,
all of our extra prize related episodes, all the Daredevils,
all of our interviews over the last almost three years that we've been doing
the podcast.
Yeah.
So we're almost at episode 100.
So calculated it out.
And episode 100, strangely enough, is going to be regular episode 23,
which will be our next episode.
What?
So a little bit weird, but we're approaching our 100th episode
at episode 23 at episode.
I mean, that's very not quite right.
Inverted Commons.
It just goes to show how much other stuff we do apart from our regular podcast
episodes.
But yeah, 100 episodes.
And like, you know, we celebrate our wins and this is a a
milestone.
You know, we started this podcast three years ago
and we've just been kind of chugging along doing it.
You know, the prizes come in words on the waves,
all this stuff.
So episode 23, which is our next regular episode,
I think it'll probably come out after our July long list shortlist episode.
We're gonna make that our official 100th episode celebration.
Like, oh, why not have a cake and chill?
OK, any excuse for a cake?
Yeah, we definitely have some wine.
So what I'd like to do on that episode is just like reminisce and OK,
look back on the last few years.
What do we get?
Like the Vaseline lens and just start like doing these flashbacks.
I do like, yeah.
So like what, what are the highlights?
What are the things that we love?
Because I, I look back over episode catalogue and
there's so many funny moments and so many things that I that I enjoy,
I like to talk about them.
Oh my God.
Are we gonna do one of those Christmas specials where you do the little
flashbacks?
The little.
And there's this really flimsy storyline where, like you reference ****.
What were they called?
A like a flashback.
Oh, clip show.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Are we gonna do that?
Let's do that.
We could, but we invite our listeners as well to
let us know on social media what were your favourite moments or not quite right
from the last three years.
Sounds good.
Yeah.
So I have my favourites and you have your favourites, no doubt.
Many of which make the cutting room floor.
Yeah.
Look, there's a lot of material on the cutting
room floor.
No, but that's exciting.
Well, I hope people will celebrate with us.
I don't want it to just be you and me sitting here, like,
awkwardly with the crickets literally chirping outside.
Like, it would be nice.
It would be nice to have people, like, phone in inverted commas.
So please do.
We'd love to hear your voice.
Literally.
Send us a voicemail.
Send us an email.
Send us a tweet.
Like, whatever.
Yeah, we'll.
We'll take it.
Send us Adm send us a letter.
We've got APO box on the website, a sex, you know, send us like avhs tape.
You could do that.
You could if you wanted.
I wouldn't know what to do with that, but like you could send us * **** ***
like whatever, Roxanne, we're looking at you.
I actually pulled my back.
You pulled your back, say send us a tick.
Like he was so excited somehow.
I don't know.
Are you OK?
You're so old.
Holy ****.
Is this what it's like?
Should I just shoot myself now before I get to your age?
I think it's those moments of like, should I just shoot myself?
Just get closer and closer together as you get older and then you're like like
at the moment they're now every couple of months,
but this is just going to get close.
Tilts this constant voice in your head.
Oh dear.
Are you OK though?
I'm fine.
I just.
You really put your back into it.
Jeez, I did.
Yeah, so please celebrate with us, let us know like what your favourite
moments are.
We'd love to hear them.
I really can't wait to talk about like all of those, you know,
oscillating penis moments of the the past couple of years.
We've I've had so much fun doing this podcast and yeah,
I'm really looking forward to that.
Yeah, me too.
I've literally OK, go, go, go, go, go, go take some sort of like Voltar and some
****.
So let's get into some Q&A.
We've got quite a few emails, voicemail messages,
tweets or exes as you like to call.
No, you didn't earlier on corrected me.
I didn't say exes.
That's like an actual a post.
Listen, no need to get defensive as I attack you.
Anyway, we received quite a number of messages
from our listeners.
So in different formats, in different formats.
So let's go through them.
So this email comes from an anonymous entrant who is a former daredevil writing
to us about their experience as a daredevil.
And they say you and Ed have helped me realise that short time frame writing is
not my strength.
As soon as I submit a piece, I want to rewrite it.
It's a skill that some people have.
I'm not one of them.
What do you think about that?
I think that just sounds like typical writer lack of confidence, you know,
it's so sensitive to that criticism and and you take it on as if that's who you
are.
It's like just because that's sometimes how it goes doesn't mean that's all
you're capable of or whatever.
So I guess I just hesitate for anyone to sort of put themselves in a box.
But having said that, it's good to recognise your strengths and
weaknesses too.
Like we all have them.
We all have our strengths and weaknesses and not even strengths and weaknesses,
but like, this is what I prefer to do.
Like, that's good.
Yeah.
You know, great.
You've realised that.
I guess it's sad to me.
Like, I hate to think that we've put someone
off writing comps.
Like, oh, you've you've entered writing comps and
you've decided like it's not for you because maybe you didn't get the result
you're after or, or the response was maybe feeding some of
those insecurities that you heard about your writing.
I guess to me it's like it's, it's, you know, there's two sides to this.
Like to some extent great.
Recognise the things that you're good at and that you enjoy and pursue those
things.
Like that's important.
But also don't limit yourself.
Like if there is a side of things that you feel like is a weakness,
that's just something you can work on.
It's not like, oh, you are incapable of doing it.
It's a tricky one because like, as the people who are doing the critique,
there's always the worry, you know, when we're talking about it,
that we that we're going to discourage someone.
And that's, you know, we've said it before,
that's not what we want to do.
That's not what we're trying to do.
We're not trying to discourage people or ever say like, you're not good at writing,
you shouldn't be writing.
That's not it.
We're trying to point out what we think would improve a story,
what we think works, what we think doesn't work.
And it's always like, it's subjective.
That's our that's our opinion.
And we've also said before, you and I have submitted so much **** to
writing comps in the past as well.
And maybe in the future, like that's that's always going to happen.
It's the nature of this kind of time crunch based competition is that you know,
you're going to get a varying amount of quality and a varying amount of
inspiration that just hits you.
It's got to be the right thing at the right time.
It's a craft you can build, but it's also very there's luck.
Yeah, there's a lot of variants and there's a
lot of luck, right?
So never judge yourself by like the last thing that you wrote.
You shouldn't put all of your kind of ego, ego into that one basket of being that
represents me.
So the writer here is is expressing themselves saying that they don't think
that this is for them, I guess.
And like, maybe it isn't the right time for you.
This kind of thing comes in waves and comes in cycles for people.
Like people get really into comps for a while.
Maybe they want to take a step back.
Maybe they want to get into them later.
Maybe they want to kind of move into longer fiction.
Maybe they've been writing longer fiction.
They want to move into shorter fiction.
You've got to find what inspires you and what inspires you is not going to inspire
you forever and ever necessary early.
So there are there are times when you might want to do coms.
There's times when you might want to focus on like your novel.
O I'm, I'm very sympathetic to this view of like,
I've thought about it and for the moment I'm going to do something else.
But what I really don't want people to think is like,
this is not for me because I'm not good enough.
Yeah.
Because it's a skill that you can work on and you can nurture and develop and you
can also just get ******* lucky some rounds.
And they're not like the muse can just show up or not.
And that's just luck.
Like you've got a weekend.
Like, it's not always about the talent.
Yeah.
And I think the more you're exposed to this stuff,
the more that you listen to podcasts like this or other podcasts or read, you know,
great short fiction, the more exposed you are,
the better that you become.
So it's not like an an innate natural thing that people have.
It's something that you work at and that you can improve if you want to.
And not everyone wants to.
And that's perfectly fine.
I think to some extent there's an innate quality.
I think there are certainly people who naturally find it easier to write
excellent fiction.
Doesn't mean they get it right every time either,
but probably get it right more naturally more often.
It's really difficult for me personally.
I find this critiquing thing very challenging for me personally because I
really want to encourage people, but I have this analytical mindset that's
like, oh, I can see you could do this and you could
do that.
And I'm, I'm not saying I'm always right either,
but I can certainly analyse and have ideas and think of ways to change or,
or make something maybe in my view better.
So that's in conflict with my desire to just encourage and say just do it because
it's fun.
And also this part of me that's not only just do it because it's fun,
but like just do it because it's important.
It's so important for you to express yourself and like,
who cares what other people think?
But like, we're running a competition.
So you do care.
Like I get it, it's complicated.
But like, you know, I'm the kind of writer who I write for
myself 1st and like, OK, I edit maybe with the hope of doing OK.
But like, ultimately, what's the point?
Like, to me, if you're writing to win, OK, if you do that, great, that for you.
But for me, I write because I have something to say
or because I just need to let out that part of myself.
And that's what I want people to nurture.
And the idea that you would censor yourself or that you would judge yourself
harshly and say, I'm not good enough to even do that,
it's just so sad to me.
Like forget that, forget it.
It's not about the prize, it's not about the money,
it's about competing.
It's about doing it.
It's about showing up.
Like all of that stuff is so important to me.
So there's two conflicting sides where one part of me is like analytical and
thinking like, let's get up there, let's try and win.
And then the other part is like, who gives a ****?
I'll I'll tell you why do it anyway.
It's like any skill, like I play tennis as well.
And a big part of that is just the fun of playing the sport.
And when you have a coach who's saying, like, you're hitting a shot wrong or,
like, try to do this to improve it, like part of the fun is just doing it.
And part of the fun is competing and winning and learning and growing.
Yeah.
And when someone tells you that, hey, you could be doing this better or you're
doing these movements that don't quite make sense, and maybe if you tried this,
that should not be an indictment that, you know,
you don't have the capacity to play well using the team in the tennis thing.
It just means that, like, you've got something to learn and
everyone's got something to learn.
Yeah.
But I also respect this idea of, like, really following your instincts.
And if your instincts are telling you like,
it's not serving me to enter comps now.
And if that's sincere and not just like an ego thing where you've bruised and,
like, reacting and being defensive, If you genuinely acknowledge in yourself
and, like, look deep in within yourself and think
this is not serving me, then that I respect massively.
You should listen to that.
Yeah.
And you should do what lights you up.
Yeah.
And if that that's not comps, who cares?
Like whatever, like what lights you up?
I don't know, like that's gonna be different for
everybody.
And I know for myself, for example, like I've banned myself from entering
comps this year because this lights me up and I want to put my energy into this
right now.
That's not to say comps won't and they do the siren song of the comp.
Maybe you've banned yourself, but you've entered a couple.
So accidentally slipped and entered a couple.
But like it's hard because I hear it, but at the same time,
like I know I do not have the time or capacity at the moment to do that.
So that's where I'm at.
I would love to be entering every weekend.
That would be me.
If that's, if that was my life stage when I had that
time, that's what I'd be doing.
But for me, I have to be like, no, listen to my instincts.
That's too much, too much pressure.
I'll have a break and look, when I come back to it,
I'll be coming back with gusto kind of thing.
So I guess I respect really listening to yourself and following the path that you
as a creative person think is best suited to you and like thriving then do you know
what I mean?
Like if you're, if you're beating your head against a
brick wall, that's no good.
Like if you find the way to thrive, that's ultimately like the best solution
entirely.
So another piece of correspondence that we've received is about pre written
stories.
OK, so stories that have been written either
for some of the comp or other publication call out or someone writes in their spare
time and they're submitting this story to the not quite right prize and maybe doing
well with it as well.
But it's a story they wrote before, well before that weekend.
So what are your thoughts on that?
Yeah, this is a tricky one.
Like we can't police it.
It is number one.
We cannot keep track of every single comp and and whether you've made the long or
the shortlist in the past.
I mean, it's something that we're aware of, right?
Sometimes people submit stories very close to the prompts going out.
So if you submit a story like an hour after the prompts dropped and it's pretty
polished.
Yeah.
You probably haven't written it in response to the prompts, to be clear.
I guess it's probably worth saying like our rules state pretty clearly that we
don't accept resubmissions.
Like this has to be a story you've written for this cop.
So that's the rule.
That's technically what we expect.
And it goes against the spirit of the the competition,
which is really like you write in response to the prompts.
I think it's unrealistic to imagine that people don't have preconceived ideas that
they're bringing into the rounds.
So, so you're not starting every single comp
from scratch, just being like scratching your head and
being like, what are my ideas?
What can I kind of mean?
I kind of am, but yeah, yeah, yeah.
But some people have like some people are better and more organised.
So not against that organisation.
Like you open your your notes up and you kind of go through your ideas and think
one that might mess with those.
I think a good example, like just in the past round,
I know a couple of stories that did quite well that were like based on snippets of
things.
You know, we were talking about killing your
darlings.
And these were darlings that were just maybe a phrase that had been pre written
or like something in living in their notes up that they turned into a story.
But like the spirit of writing to the comp was there very much so like clearly
we can't police your brain and like what the actual work is done in response to
the prompts.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So I don't know, like there's a grey area I suppose
between.
Yeah, I don't know if that's a grey area.
I don't really have a not to me, no, that bit's like great, yeah,
that bit's fine.
But I guess as it approaches like pre writtenness, yeah,
it starts to become definitely if you've taken something you've already written
and you've tweaked a word or a phrase or a couple of yeah,
you've chucked in the prompt word.
That's not, that is not ideal.
Yeah.
No, that goes against the spirit of the
competition.
And we wouldn't, you know, we wouldn't be happy with that.
It's not what it's all about.
It's about challenging yourself.
It's about writing something to the prompts.
It's about creating a new work of fiction for the comps.
So it's funny because we're not **** about other things.
And that drives some people crazy.
Yeah.
You know, we're not **** about the interpretation
of the anti prompt.
And I know for some people that's like, well,
what the **** is the point of the anti prompt then?
Like, I get it.
And now we're saying we're a bit **** about this,
but also there's no way of policing.
And it's just something that makes us feel dismantled made, I guess.
So I don't know why we feel dismayed about that and not the wild
interpretations of the anti prompt.
And, you know, I think there is, there's this subculture of like people
who move from comp to comp and who have like folders, binders of women and they,
they call on them, you know, as needed.
And I think look like you're working hard, You've got this, this backlog of stories.
I think that's great for like publication submission.
I think that's great when you're like, oh, there's a call out for a story about
trust and I've got a story about trust or there's a story, you know,
call out for stories about, I don't know, Christmas and I've got a story about
Christmas.
Great.
I think comps are, to me a little bit different,
but I know that's the thing.
It's a thing for people.
They go from comp to comp and they're just trying their luck.
Yeah.
I don't know how viable that is as a strategy as well.
Like if you're submitting the same story to multiple comps,
it's probably not going to do Yeah, better in one than it has in the past.
I mean, it could like there is luck involved.
There's luck involved, but it's unlikely to go from nothing to
shortlist.
It might go from long list to shortlist or shortlist to longlist or that kind of
thing.
But like I can, I can definitely sympathise with loving a
story that you've written and wanting to improve that and change it and tweak it
for another comp.
So I don't know, maybe that's where the grey area is.
If you've written a story in the past and you love the the idea of the story and
you think it would be a good fit for the latest round of the not quite right prize
and you kind of rewrite it or tweak it significantly for the comp,
then that might be a bit more of a grey area.
I don't know.
It depends on how much it's been changed.
I don't know.
Look, it's all moot because we can't check and
we're not going to check like we're not going to run a buddy police check on
every story that comes through.
I guess here's the truth.
Alright, here's I guess what it comes down to.
If we chose it was a winning story and we found out that that story had been
previously submitted elsewhere or like shopped around,
I'd still pay the prize money, but I'd be really sad about it and I'd
feel I'd feel sad.
It's that simple.
Like, I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed.
No, True.
And and if we got to the stage where we were about to select a winner or a
shortlist or we found that out, then it wouldn't make the cut.
It wouldn't.
I think it wouldn't.
And so why are we **** about this?
I guess for me, yeah, it's the spirit of the thing, right?
It's like, are you the point of the comp is to be
creative, to challenge yourself.
And I guess that maybe that's why we're more flexible on the anti prompt because
it's like we don't want to box you in and say it has to be a certain way.
Like we're getting amazing stories that have just been inspired by these prompts
like that.
That's what we're aiming to achieve, not an edited version of something that's
gone elsewhere.
Like we want new stuff, we want inspiration,
we want that spark of creativity.
And yeah, imperfect.
Maybe it's only been a weekend.
That's OK.
You can edit it later and submit to publications later.
Like, absolutely.
All for that, right?
Like when you write a story and either it didn't make the long list or it did or
whatever and you're like, you know what?
I love this story.
I'm going to shop it around to lit mags that I love.
That's great.
All right, so next item on the agenda.
Next item on the agenda.
There is a controversy that has taken over the Internet by the name of
fizzlegate #fizzlegate.
Tell us about that.
OK, so, you know, in the last round of the competition,
you know, we made some disparaging comments about a
particular story.
Which episode was this?
This was in the comp, right?
The ******* long list and such as That's your ******* question, man.
You we're both belligerent, OK, As long as we're both belligerent,
it's fine.
Now I'm drunk.
That's the problem.
So fizzlegate basically in the long list and short list episodes of the April
round, we're talking about this story and we're
kind of alluding to it.
That would have made the shortlist and didn't quite make it because the ending
fizzle down.
But subsequently to that, like, because being a bit cagey,
we didn't want to call this person out.
I mean, eventually we did, but we didn't want to make a scene about
it.
And so we were sort of dancing around it a little bit.
But as a result, people start freaking out thinking that's
my story.
Yeah.
And so sorry about that, guys.
That's not the result I intended.
But I got AADM from someone, I won't say their name,
who was talking about how they had thought it was their story because what
they did was they read the transcript of the podcast episode and our transcript is
automatically generated.
It is full of errors.
It's terrible, right?
And the transcript had paired this person's name and story title with the
description of a, of a story that had fizzled out.
And so they went to their writers group in a panic and said, Oh my God, it's me.
And they're like, no, no, no, no.
Just listen.
If you listen to the episode, it's not you.
So it got dubbed Fizzle Gate, apparently.
But the good news is, so there's a bit of good news because
obviously no one wants to be on the receiving end of Fizzlegate.
No one wants to be that person whose story supposedly fizzled out at the end.
But we got a lovely little message from Fizzlegate himself.
Fizzle the Fizzle, the fizzler, I think.
Oh, the Fizzler, Yes.
And he's actually one to share with us that he has submitted his story called
Choices, which is the one that we said fizzled at
the end to the Flash 500 contest.
And the feedback they provided is the ending finishes the story perfectly,
which goes to show how subjective this really all is.
Seriously.
So it's either it's either Fizzlegate or it's perfect.
Yeah.
It's like Schrodinger's ending.
Yeah.
And I mean, look, that's that's the tricky thing as well.
We're reading these stories in the context of comparing the top, you know,
8 or 9 or 10 and trying to work out which one makes the cut.
So we're thinking this one hasn't handled the ending as well as this one.
And this one has done, you know, X better than the other one.
But when you read these stories in isolation,
you might have different thoughts.
But it's not just that, either.
It's like we're coming at it with our own prejudices.
Yeah.
And we fully acknowledge that.
Like, we can't pretend we don't have them.
And it's not like I go into a story primed to hate it ever.
Like, you know, this was a story that I really liked,
actually.
But, you know, there's things that are triggers or
things that, like, as a judge that bother you or that make
one story seem superior to another or whatever.
And ultimately, it could be different on a different.
So I guess, like, I just saw this as a wonderful redemption
story, basically, like, if you get a result you're not stoked
about with this comp, And this is not the first time,
by the way.
I know of other authors who've gone on to publication and who've gone on with
stories that they're very proud of to have great success elsewhere.
And it's like, OK, we just didn't pick up what you're
putting down on that particular occasion.
Like, great.
Like, if you believe in your story, I think that's a good sign that someone
else will, too.
Yeah.
And it's not like we didn't pick up what Tom were the nature was putting down
because we gave him you gave him your wild card.
Yeah, it did like it.
It was actually a really great story and it came very close to the shortlist.
So, so well done, Tom.
And and we encourage that.
Absolutely.
We love to share in in your success as well.
Yeah.
If you do get published elsewhere, like tag us, let us know.
Like we're, we're so excited to hear when anybody
gets, you know, a little nod from this very slim Pickens
world of publishing.
So our first question in voicemail form comes from Freya.
Hi, Amanda.
Hi, Ed, it's Freya calling from Queensland,
Australia.
I wanted to ask you guys about your flesh fiction contest.
For many of us, it's equally tempting as it is terrifying.
So my question is, have you been reading any spicy short
stories in preparation for judging?
And have you found any good ones you could recommend to us?
OK, well, Amanda, let's start with you.
What have you been reading?
All right, What pressures are have you been reading?
Mind your own business.
No, I tell you what I have been reading.
So we've got the sponsor, Adult Matchmaker.
So that's an app that matches people who are looking for like a little bit more or
maybe a little bit more in their adult relationships.
Not maybe the vanilla situation, but something a little bit like the cream
on top maybe, and spice a little bit more spice.
And what they have on their website is this whole section of ****** fiction as
well.
And so they're members.
So people who are on the app and meeting each other are also like sharing either
their ****** fiction or their ****** non fiction as well.
So there's this whole section of the website just full of stories that people
have been submitting.
And I know that some of these people will be submitting to flash fiction as well.
So Adult Matchmaker are sponsoring flash fiction with a membership for a year,
and their members have been doing it for quite some time and there's some really
spicy stuff on there.
And I guess what I noticed about that, because I have been reading our own flesh
fiction entries as well, it's way less tame.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's very explicit.
It's very to the point, I suppose there's not sort of so much
storytelling around the edges of it.
It's very much like the main event.
And I think that's really interesting.
I guess that's probably more typical.
Yeah.
For erotica then maybe what we're finding in flesh fiction.
And I think that's to do with maybe the tentative nature of some people coming to
our competition.
Haven't done it before.
Yeah.
Well, they're all experienced prose, right.
Like, that's the.
It was a different audience.
They're they're very much people who write in that genre.
And I think a lot of our entrance and a lot of our our listeners are branching
out maybe for the first time into this genre.
Yeah, well, look, to be honest, I think some of the people in Adult
Matchmaker forum are also doing it for the first time.
But I guess the forum they're publishing into is one that's much more explicit and
maybe like expected that it's going to be that way.
And yeah, I mean, if you're looking for some inspiration,
I'd definitely say go and check it out.
There's a whole range of different stuff there and you know,
some really great writers as well.
So we'll put the link in the show notes, but it's on the Adult Matchmaker website.
There's like an erotica section, so if you Google it, you can find it,
but we'll put the link in the show notes as well.
OK, cool.
So what about you Ed?
What's on your smart list?
So I heard this question and I thought, well, I don't,
I'm not reading much erotica.
But then I reflected a moment and I realised actually I'm just not reading
much and the three books I have going at the moment are all erotica.
It's just that I'm not actually finishing any of the books.
Oh dear.
So they're all on my bookshelf shelf with a bookmark in them.
And like, I just kind of pick them up like every
couple of months at this point.
Like, how do they feel about that?
Just pick them up and cast them aside like unfinished without even considering
their feelings and situation.
So what are they, the books?
The first one is Tropic of Cancer by Henry Miller,
which is the one that's on Seinfeld.
Yeah, I feel Tropic of Capital.
I think they were both mentioned in Seinfeld, but I'm,
I checked that earlier today just to see how I'm going and I'm 50 pages in.
But I've been reading that for like at least 2,
potentially 3 years at this point.
And I pretty much, that's a very damning kind of, well,
I was kind of into it for a bit and then, and then I just was like, it's,
it's stalled.
So I parked that one.
I feel like when you're 50 pages into a book over a couple of years,
you've pretty much got to start again.
So I'll get into that eventually.
The second one is the story of the I by Georges Batai.
French, French.
This is not some ******* I child **** again, is it?
It may well be.
I ordered this book off eBay after we recorded our episode National Geographic
for People with Bad Hair, which is the the discussion about the
before series, before sunrise, Sunset and and Midnight,
because it was the book that Julie Delpy was reading on the train.
And so I was like, oh, what's that?
And I ordered it.
And it is a book of, you know, French ****** fiction.
And I've read like a couple of chapters of that.
And similarly, I've just gone, OK.
It's not really doing it for me.
But like, I don't know if you've ever read like
classical French ****** fiction, like the Marquis Decade.
And so far, all I hear hear from you is that it's all
**** and ****.
It's not really **** feeling to me.
Yeah.
And, and weird, weird stuff.
So I don't know.
I don't know.
I'll finish that eventually.
So this is like like so far, yeah.
Not so good.
Yeah.
The third one I'm reading is a book called Want by Gillian Anderson of X
Files fame.
Agent Scully, most people remember and she's compiled a
book of like women's fantasies.
And so I picked this up.
I got it from QBD bookshop.
Oh, OK.
And yeah, that's very interesting and and is very
non fiction, right.
Well, it is actually compiled letters that
people have submitted and they're all kind of categorised and is a little bit
about the the people who've submitted.
Doesn't it give like stats on the author?
Like, yeah, it's demographic, demographic information at the bottom of
each story.
Weird.
It's it is a little bit weird.
Like doesn't it tell you their income and ****?
Yeah, it says something about their income and
their marital status and whether they have kids.
It's a really weird select, really selected group of demographic
information.
Like why have you chosen, you know how much money someone made?
Curious.
Yeah.
It's just, it's strange, Yeah.
But yeah, that's interesting because you're reading
about all these.
I don't want to say weird.
I don't want a king shame you we have because you've said weird.
Like 4 people's fantasies can be very specific and and a very idiosyncratic.
I think one of the hooks of the book is that I I'm pretty sure one of the
fantasies in there is Gillian Anderson's own fantasy,
but she hasn't said which one it is.
And as just any of the demographics like really ******* skewed towards rich or one
of the demographics is like millionaire and was on X files like so that's I mean,
look, the problem with all these books is that
like they're hard to read in your daily life.
And I like I like a physical book.
I don't love an an ebook.
And so like I don't want to go to the kids swimming or whatever it is and pull
out like whatever the story of the eye and be like, Oh yeah.
So, so you kind of read when you can, I feel like, yeah, no,
I think that's fair enough.
Look, basically your little summary there tells
me that everyone should just get onto an adult matchmaker instead,
because maybe I think so.
And look, they're short stories as well, so it's more similar in that regard.
But I guess the other, like, Wreck, I suppose,
if people are looking for some inspiration like Chuck Tingle.
Oh, yeah.
Come on.
We've done an episode about Chuck Tingle.
Yeah.
And look, it's a whole other thing.
It's more for the lols, for me anyway.
I mean?
Whether that's actually a thing.
But, you know, just someone who, like, forget the nature of it.
So just like a quick recap.
Chuck Tingle writes these extremely bizarre ****** fiction stories mainly
featuring like either like a concept as the subject of desire or like Bigfoot or
a billionaire jet plane.
Like these really sort of wild out there kind of storylines.
So that's to me really good fun.
But what's really compelling about Chuck Tingle's stuff is that he just writes
like without any kind of philtre whatsoever and just puts it out there.
So I think that's really fun.
And you know, whether you're writing a story about a
billionaire jet plane or an actual human being,
the idea of just letting yourself go and just letting yourself explore an idea is
to me really fun.
And that's what I want as well.
So we're going to have stories that are intense because they're really explicit,
but also stories that are just like kind of crazy and wild.
Like I, I think we welcome all of that stuff.
What I hope we see more of is the stories that go hard on either of those, you know,
or both, and fewer stories where we're tentatively
sort of working around the edges, like just do it.
Yeah.
Ultimately.
Totally.
So Amanda, I've got something for you.
I've got I've got a good present for you.
Oh, God.
It's it was your birthday this week.
Oh, my God.
OK.
Yes, it was.
And on my birthday, you gave me a really lovely present of a
hand drawn picture which is hanging up on my wall, which is amazing.
And I've been stressing about like, what can I get you for your birthday?
Because there's no way I can possibly, like I would accept a hand drawn picture
from you.
I can barely write words on the page, let alone that amazing detailed drawing
that you've done.
So anyway, I bought you a little present for your
birthday.
OK.
But you're bringing it up in a very inopportune time.
So now.
But it is, it's actually irrelevant.
Oh, OK.
But so we're talking about ****** fiction authors.
And this author might surprise you as an author of ****** fiction.
All right.
This is wrapped in actual brown paper.
Like this is how it arrived at your house.
OK.
Oh.
Oh, oh.
Oh.
James Joyce.
It's.
Yeah.
So what have you?
What are you holding your hand?
I'm holding a very used looking book.
It's called Selected Joyce Letters, edited by Richard Elman,
the editor's choice of the best letters from James Joyce's 3 great volumes with
important editions of previously unpublished letters.
So apparently James Joyce wrote some fairly ****** letters to his wife.
And is this like a Napoleon situation?
Napoleon.
Josephine, maybe?
So the reason why the book that you're holding is a million years old is because
that was the last edition that they were published in.
I think that his estate has said like, we're not going to publish these anymore.
So that's from 1975.
It actually arrived from America just yesterday.
So good timing.
But I opened and I was like, oh, where are the ****** letters?
And I and I had to look in the index, but it's actually quite because it's a
used book.
Just just open it, hang on in where it naturally opens and
you will find there no where, where, where there's a clear crease in it.
That's where the ****** stories are.
So maybe, yes, this page is broken.
So maybe maybe you can read some excerpts.
Naretta Min, I got your pitiful letter this evening
telling me you were going about without underclothes.
I did not get 200 crowns on the 25th, but only 50 crowns and 50 again on the
first.
Enough about money.
I send you a little banknote and hope you may be able to buy a pretty frilly pair
of drawers, at least for yourself out of it,
and we'll send you more when I am paid again.
Oh, that's hot.
I would like you to wear drawers with three or four frills, one over the other,
at the knees and up the thighs, and great Crimson bows in them.
I mean not schoolgirls, drawers with a thin shabby lace border,
tight around the legs and so thin that the flesh shows between them, but women's,
or if you prefer the word, ladies, drawers with a full loose bottom and wide
legs, all frills and lace and ribbons and heavy
with perfume.
So that whenever you show them, whether in pulling up your clothes
hastily to do something, or in cuddling yourself up prettily to be
blocked, I can see only a swelling mass of white
stuff and frills.
And so that when I bend down over you to open them and give you a burning lustful
kiss on your naughty bear bum, I can smell the perfume of your drawers
as well as the warm odour of your **** and the heavy smell of your behind.
Well, that escalated quickly, quickly, quickly.
And and that's like one sentence.
I was trying to draw breath then and it just kept going.
That's very James Joyce.
It was very James Joyce.
And and like, you know, they get pretty explicit, I think.
And imagine having literary giant James Joyce sending you this very literary
erotica.
Clitorary giant James Joyce.
I'd like to read one.
I've.
I've looked this on.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Go on.
Please read a passage of your choosing.
OK, so this one I found particularly
interesting.
You had an *** full of farts that night, darling,
And I ****** them out of you big fat fellows.
Long windy ones, quick little merry cracks and a lot of
tiny little naughty farties ending in a long gush from your hole.
It is wonderful to **** a farting woman when every **** drives one out of her.
I think I would.
I think I would know Noras fart anywhere.
I think I could pick hers out in a room full of farting women.
It is a rather girlish noise and not like the wet windy fart which I imagine fat
wives have.
It is sudden and dry and dirty, like what a bold girl would let off in
fun in a school dormitory at night.
I hope Nora will let off no end of her farts in my face so that I might know
their smell also.
Oh my God.
So this certainly throws James Joyce in a little bit of a different life.
This is Nisha's ****.
Shout out to Greg Schmidt.
A little farting love story.
See, it's real.
It's.
Yeah, it's real and it's real.
And it involves literary giant James Joyce, which is like, it's amazing.
And you're in good company, Greg.
You can see why James Joyce's estate was like, maybe let's not print these again.
So anyway, you have in your hands a rare copy of of
all of his smutty letters.
Alright.
I feel very special.
There's no stains.
So thank you for giving me an unstained copy.
Well, yet, I should say.
So our next message comes from Trevor Flanagan.
Hi Ed and Amanda, it's Trevor Flanagan from the UK.
You recently asked for discussion topics for your latest podcast.
And I thought, as you normally recommend to each other,
book or film challenges, it's set you both want.
I love films or series with quirky scripting.
And I thought as you tried Garth Marangi's Dark Place,
you might like something else starring Matt Berry.
So my recommendation to you both is the 61 episode series.
What Do We Do in the Shadows?
Enjoy.
So have you seen what We Do in the Shadows?
No, I have not.
I've seen the the movie was a mid twenty 10s movie, I think by, you know,
remember Flight of the Conchords?
I was having babies, mate, I was busy.
But I do know Flight of the Conchords.
Yeah, one of the guys at least was in it.
It was a good movie.
I I enjoyed that one, but I never got around to watching the is
it like New Zealand's castle or what are we talking?
Well, it's vampires, but, but it's funny.
Vampires in Auckland or whatever.
Yeah.
They have New Zealand accents.
Yeah, yeah, OK, that's funny.
But the series, the movie was great and I never watched
the series.
I never got around to and I'm no Matt Berry's in it and I love Matt Berry from
IT crowd and Garth Marenghi and elsewhere got to be racist.
But yeah, it's definitely on my list.
And like all those shows with those people like Garth Marenghi, IT crowd.
There's another Matt Berry show called Toast of London, which I enjoy as well,
but it's it's very niche.
It's one of those shows that I would have trouble recommending to any.
I would never recommend it to you, but it's very different and I enjoy shows
that are different and quirky and like surprise you in that way.
Well, I appreciate the recommendation.
I will check it out.
I guess the invitation there is to kind of recommend our own quirky ****.
Yeah.
So I'm a huge fan of the IT Crowd.
So I do love that gang.
And you know, if we're talking well written series,
which I think we are, again, like that's obviously subjective,
but I think there's a big distinction between a well written series and just a
series.
I think there are only a handful that are like really well written.
And to me IT Crowd is up there.
So I don't know.
What do you think?
What are some of your top in the same vein as you were talking there?
Like a shout out to Father Ted.
Oh God.
But again, it's funny.
It's easy to watch at one of these.
It's an easy watch.
The characters are great, 3 short seasons, it's fun.
I've got a few other recommendations of shows that I've been watching that I'll
call out and like you talk about well written shows everyone talks about like
Game of Thrones, everyone talks about Breaking Bad.
Those are shows that are great and there's no point talking about them
because we already know about them.
So some other ones I'd like to call out some Nathan Fielder shows and these ones
I would not recommend to you, Amanda, and I probably wouldn't recommend to very
many people.
But if you're into something that's a little bit different,
I would recommend The Rehearsal.
And Nathan Fielder has also done The Curse previously and Nathan for You a few
years back.
But The Rehearsal and The Curse as well, very much maybe an acquired taste,
maybe a specific taste, but just unlike anything else on TV.
Both of them defy any kind of description.
I don't even know if you'd say the writing, the scripting,
they're not necessarily, well, the curse is scripted,
but the rehearsal is kind of semi reality, semi scripted and just completely crazy.
So I would say give that one a shot.
If you are into that kind of thing, you'll just be like, yes, if you're not,
you'll be like, what the **** am I watching?
So you're gonna fall into one of those.
So you'll get my experience when Ed wrecks **** to me.
There's no way I would wreck these to you because you're you're definitely in the
what the **** am I watching camp on these ones?
I don't know, like I know Andy says what the **** about
Mighty Boosh?
Like I guess we all have our little Achilles heels.
Yeah, when I was thinking about it, what struck me was that when I think well
written series, most of the series that came to mind for
me were comedies.
And I'm not sure what that's about, if that's me or if that's just what
impresses me when someone does comedy really well.
The number one obvious answer to that question is Arrested Development for me.
And it's not just funny, right?
And I think that's the thing.
It's not just funny, it's self referential in a way that's
extremely clever.
You get rewards for watching it longer because jokes in season 4 will reference
jokes in Season 1.
You know, characters develop and grow and change
and like their back story.
It's not like a normal sitcom, you know, like The Simpsons where everyone resets
on the next episode.
It's like their story actually continues.
You get deeper into it.
These running jokes that does develop and grow is so artfully done.
It does not hurt that Jason Bateman is in the series, I have to say.
But it's so ******* hilarious.
Like there's there's nothing else like it on TV and it's supposedly this like cult
classic comedy.
Like why is it not mainstream?
I do not understand.
It's pretty under underrated in my opinion.
No one talks about it.
Like I mean, people do plenty of people talk about
like within my circles, like we know Arrested Development is
hilarious, but why was it not up there with Seinfeld
or like, I don't know.
I really don't know.
Anyway, so that's number one clearly to me.
And another one on my list is 30 Rock.
30 Rock to me.
I never watched that one actually.
I think you'd love it.
And you know, it's hit and miss.
It does have a lot of episodes, so there's things that are funnier than
others.
But something that we go on and on about in our flash fiction stuff is like
character development.
And it's one of those ones that's very character driven and clever.
Like it's Tina Fey, right?
Tina Fey is to me an excellent genius comedy writer and just knows the points
to hit.
But it's it's also the acting.
It's that too, you know, there are other aspects to it and the
dynamics and chemistry between the actors and that sort of thing,
but it's incredibly well written.
But you know, from a drama perspective, I would have some recommendations as well.
So we've mentioned a couple of the big ticket ones already that obviously
Breaking Bad and Game of Thrones, like at least for parts of those series,
are very well written.
Another one big ticket, one Succession.
I'm obsessed with succession.
Like it's acting talent as well, but it is extremely well written.
I can't convince Sharon to watch that one.
So really.
Yeah, Yeah.
Oh my God.
Like I don't watch much.
That one gripped me easily.
It's so good.
But then.
And you know, I'm also a little bit like swayed by a
Culkin.
You know what I mean?
If there's a Culkin in something like that's gonna sway me.
But if a Culkin or a Bateman?
Yes, basically.
So another recent one that me and Andy really got into was Mr Robot.
Did you watch Mr Robot?
I watched the first season years ago.
When did it come out, Like 2014 or something?
And it was it was great, but I just never got around to watching
the any of the following.
OK, but also extremely well written, a little bit dystopia,
a little bit close to home.
Yeah.
Another one that I loved was Freaks and Geeks.
OK, so I never got around to that 10 God.
Oh, he'd love Freaks and Geeks.
So that's James Franco, famously, and Elliot Page.
Yep.
And busy Phillips OK of Dawson's Creek.
So there's some familiar faces in that show, but another one,
it's like this nostalgic sort of 70s stone apiece or whatever,
but it's so beautiful, very emotional.
It hits you in the feels like it's got the nostalgic element and it's just got
that real like punch in your gut kind of thing as well going on.
So it's beautiful.
And the acting there as well lifts it I think too.
And then obviously Black Mirror is amazing.
Black Mirror is very clever.
Like obviously episode 2 episode, it'll change anthology series so you
don't get the same characters.
So it can be hit and miss, but but to be honest, like pretty hit.
Like, you know, I don't remember any Black Mirror
episodes that I thought were ****.
Like, they're quite impressive.
And then finally on from a drama perspective, a little bit niche,
but this particular show that I stumbled on called Unreal, OK,
it's a drama based around like the main character,
I guess is the producer of like a Bachelor kind of show.
And it's like a behind the scenes of behind the scenes kind of thing, OK.
And this is a fiction.
It's fiction, but it plays like a reality TV because
it's like based on a Bachelor kind of style show, but it's like over the top.
But it's quite gripping and will change for every your perspective on reality TV.
Yeah, it's incredibly entertaining, fun, just pure trash in a way,
but also really well written and kind of eye opening I think as well.
All right, I might call out a couple as well that
I've watched recently.
The 1st is White Lotus, which a lot of people talking about.
I think I'm hearing that one a lot.
You know, it's not perfect, but I think the writing is quite good.
And each season has like a hook, like someone's died and you don't know
who it is.
And I think it's like you don't know who it is or don't know who did it.
No, I don't know who it is.
Oh, like you've there's each season of the
three seasons starts with like there's a dead body.
Someone's died, but you don't know who died.
You don't know who's died.
And so the whole season is like you're trying to figure out, OK,
who's gonna die and not who did it, but yeah, who is it?
So you're like, yeah, so that's an interesting hook.
You might think it's a little bit cheap, but it's it's effective and it's a little
bit, it's different.
But what stands out is like the production is great.
The characters are great.
Each season as well has a little overarching theme which I appreciate.
Like the first season had this theme of wealth and its impacts kind of
colonialism.
The second season was more on like sexual relationships, gender relationships,
and third one was more like religion and the meaning of life.
So all three seasons have been great.
I really my favourite was probably the second season.
It had Aubrey Plaza in it, who I really like.
I see and ohh, it's all becoming, but it was but it was great.
Like the acting is great, the writing is great and it's very subtle.
There's a lot of kind of nuance and that the themes really come through in the
story and you really kind of get to the end and I don't know you,
you feel like you've learnt something or something's been explored more than just
like the plot.
So anyway that I, I would recommend White Lotus even to you,
Amanda.
I think you would, you would.
A lot of people have recommended White Lotus to me and I feel like a ***** **
**** because I haven't watched it yet.
As you should and the last one I'll recommend is one that we just finished
watching the other day, which is Mr in between an Australian
series.
Scott Ryan is the writer and the actor in the series,
which is really an effective combination.
But in this it absolutely is the the episodes are well written.
It's very Australian, very much a character that he's put to to
screen there and completely engaging, completely unique.
And I'd recommend that to anyone who's Australian or who's interested in,
you know, learning about Australia, Australia, quote unquote,
Australian culture.
It's it's very ironing such thing.
If you wanna know what a Vagenko is, watch Mr In Between.
Well, just on the Australian thing, because, you know,
you were talking about like, Matt Berry and that gang, right?
The gang who write a bunch of different comedies and so on.
But I wanted to call out some Aussie comedy.
Yeah.
And now Aussies will probably be familiar with this,
but for our international listeners, there's a group called Working Dog
Productions, right?
And they are ******* amazing.
Like it's all hits like, well, OK, there's a couple of duds,
but they have a lot of really amazing Australian comedy.
So they're the guys who wrote The Castle, by the way,
but they're probably not really known for writing The Castle, which is interesting.
What they're probably more known for is their TV series,
and there's been a few of them.
So Frontline was back in the day and I remember we actually studied that at
school.
But it's kind of like so topical even now.
So Frontline was the sitcom a set around like a current affairs show and just like
the ******** that goes on behind the scenes at a current affairs show and like
the ******* frontman for it and the people who actually keep the show running
and all that sort of stuff.
It's incredibly fascinating and opening and I think probably a little bit real.
And that's what makes it so compelling.
And they also have now another series which is so good that I can't watch it.
And that's Utopia.
Yeah, it's very much true to life.
If you work in a corporate environment, especially dealing with governments in
Australia, it really hits home.
It hits home so hard.
So Utopia is another sitcom, but it's set around like a government
department in Australia and just all the red tape and the nonsense that goes on.
And yeah, if you work in that space, it's unbearable to watch this show.
It is so accurate and so good and so funny.
But like just an open wound like kind of situation.
No, it's, it's too accurate.
And also I think Working Dog also did the Hollow Men, which is, yeah,
government kind of.
So I didn't watch Hollow Men.
I haven't watched it either.
But like these guys and girls go back to like the degeneration, right?
This is back to the 80s and 90s.
So this is kind of like and the Late Show, right?
Like the Late Show, Yeah.
So like a late night show kind of comedy kind of set up like kind of Australia's
closest ever attempt at Saturday Night Live.
But it's it's such a classic that it's still celebrated to this day.
And another Steve Feisart actually just appear at Words on the Waves.
Words on the Waves.
But another call out to anyone who appreciates the lowbrow humour.
I will recommend Baja.
So have you ever watched My God, You can watch it on YouTube.
I watch it about once a year.
It's it's just if you enjoy fart humour, Allah, James Joyce, you will enjoy Baja.
Yeah.
So if you're talking like these cult, like the writers who just are prolific
and keep bringing you great stuff, that's the Aussie equivalent,
I guess these guys.
But also I I couldn't not mention Kath and Kim.
Yeah, very similar, really like that.
That's the other big group in Australia, comedy, because we've got,
we've got The Degeneration Late Show and there's also Fast forward, Full Frontal,
and that's these guys.
Yeah.
And most international people might be more familiar with Eric Banner.
Yeah, he's on this side of the equation.
Yeah.
Who was in Dear John?
He played Chopper Reid in Chopper, as you have seen play Chopper Reid.
And in fact, that's another wreck of mine.
Like if we're talking Aussie stuff, Underbelly, right.
So Australian organised crime.
Yeah.
Underbelly, especially the first couple of seasons of
that series are amazing.
I haven't seen it put up but it's on some.
It's good, it's so good.
And just another couple of call outs for Aussie stuff,
like if we're talking quirky stuff, if you're Aussie you've watched it and if
you're not, you need to.
So another one is Chris Lily now Chris, Chris Lilies,
cops and flak in recent times.
I'm not gonna go there 'cause I don't care about that ****.
I'm just here for the walls, and to me, the greatest walls were Summer Heights
High, and that's because it roasted me and my
friends.
So Summer Heights High is based around this character called Jermaine.
Who is this like privileged private school girl who is not me by the way,
but like close enough, right?
I went to a Catholic girls school.
And so living in that world of just all you give a **** about is what you're
doing in that moment.
And the roasting is so on point, but it's like you just,
you just have to sit there and cop it and be like, yeah, that's me.
Well, he plays 3 characters there that he plays
Jimmy, he plays Jonah and is the teacher, the drama teacher, Mr Mr G,
who is literally a teacher we had at our school.
So yeah.
And in fact, he may even play more characters in that
series.
I'm, I kind of remember the entire genre on
TikTok of Americans discovering summer heights high and just being like,
how how did they allow this to be made?
And the answer to that question is that we're a little bit behind the times.
And also it's hilarious.
Look, again, no comment on any of the problematic
stuff that might be problematic anyway.
The other #1 Series that we need to mention,
if we're talking excellent writing for Australian TV series, Bluey, Yeah.
And I know Bluey is beloved around the world now, but we found her first.
And don't even get me started on the well written cartoons of the day and The
Simpsons and South Park and these ones that have at times like really captured
the essence of what was going on in the world at that time.
Like Bluey is so well written to the point,
like if you watch baby race and don't cry, there's something wrong with you.
And it's it's very much delving into the parenting experience.
So obviously if you're not in that world, it's probably not going to resonate with
you.
But if you've had children and if your children are three plus kind of thing,
you will probably resonate pretty hard with with these stories.
And the characters are very lovable and like the dogs.
But like, if you haven't checked out Bluey,
but if you do have children and you want to cry,
then definitely check out the episode Baby Race.
All right, so we're talking about writing.
There are two moments that I would call out as two of my favourite moments in TV
ever emotionally, things that have stayed with me for all
these years.
And I think part of the reason why they stayed with me is because of how stupid
and how like unexpected it is.
Like it's not highbrow, it's dumb.
OK, can I guess what is one of them when
Bajas farts on the pizza to warm it up?
I've really got to rewatch that.
It's been a while.
No, although I feel like watching it again
might spark something, but no one of the moments is in.
I believe it's season 2 of Walking Dead, which I have now given up for dead
because by season 84 or whatever we're up to it's it jumped the shark and then now
it's been consumed by the shark and shut out by the shark and then the shark has
spun off like into another couple of shows.
So forget that, but I think season 2, there's this one episode of which spoiler
alert, if you're like 15 years behind or
whatever it is by now, there's this one scene where we've been
following, I guess the survivors.
And then there's zombies in a barn and we learn that one of them is Sophie, Sophia,
the child of Carol.
And at that time it was so shocking.
And so, and I mean, we look at Game of Thrones and like the
Red Wedding and even the the beheading of in these moments that are so shocking
that is rare to find because, you know, people don't go there because they want
to preserve their best characters and like,
they don't like that's like bad for business.
And to see something like that when you're not expecting it is like such a
delight, I guess.
And so like shocking in a real genuine human way of like what?
So I remember being really moved by The Walking Dead in that scene and impressed
by it from a writing perspective because it's all the emotional stuff has been
leading you to find this moment so shocking.
Like it's not just anybody.
It's like the worst possible scenario, you know?
So there's that.
And then even lower brow than zombie zombies is Neighbours.
OK, so Neighbours has always held a special
place in my heart.
And one of my other top, it's probably #1 honestly, for me,
TV moments is this moment where Susan, who has been betrayed by Doctor Karl,
I believe I've seen this on YouTube.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's outside, yes.
Yeah.
On Ramsey Street, you might say.
And he's been off with Izzy.
And not only has he been off with Izzy, she's pregnant and Susan slaps him across
the face.
And it is like, so like, it's the acting as well.
But from a soap, you don't expect that much.
You're just like, OK, this is just flop and it's stupid and who
cares?
And we're all just having a good time here.
It is so compelling.
And if you were watching that at the time, you were just like, holy **** go, Susan.
Like, you were just so happy for her.
And even all these years later, whenever that pops up on my feet,
and it does pop up on my feet from time to time, I'm just like, ******* yeah,
girl.
Like, do it again.
Like, all these years later, Karl, like, deserves another slap.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
I do.
He's he's got that punchable face, though, doesn't he?
Sometimes big time.
Hmm.
But yeah, there you go.
That's my little love of neighbours coming out in public.
It was never that secret, to be honest.
You know, I don't want to bring it to the lowest of
the lowbrow right there.
We've gone from highbrow to lowbrow.
Like you want lowbrow, watch some bajas.
It's literally the brow doesn't get any lower without your eyes being actually
closed.
Although we're about to talk about another TV show, you know,
Get Wrecked segment, which is adolescence, which is, I don't know,
so fairly brow intensive.
The brow is raised.
So should we get to that now?
Absolutely.
Each episode, Amanda and I take turns recommending each
other books or movies that we may not have chosen for ourselves.
It's a segment we call Get Wrecked, So I recommended you the TV show
Adolescence.
What do you think?
Well, I mean, unsurprising from like, a an emotional point of view.
Super depressing, but incredibly well written and well
acted.
Yeah.
Like, I'm really glad I watched it.
Yeah, well, that's a very different response to, like,
literally every other thing that I break.
So that's a good starting point.
So like, just for a bit of context, I won't go into it,
but I've had a bit of a rough time for a few months now.
And I watched this amidst that, right?
And I haven't had a lot of free time lately, but one day I had free time.
I think the kids were at school.
I didn't have a lot going on with work.
I'm like, I'm having a self care day.
I'm not going to do a lot.
And I watched it back to back to back.
And it's only, yeah.
So it's only 4 episodes an hour each.
One day I watched them all.
And by the end, holy **** like, I was a mess.
I'm just bawling my eyes out, like, properly crying.
Which, like, that's cool.
I guess it's very much in the spirit of the show because you watch them all in
one sitting and they're shot in one.
Yeah, take I rewatched them again last week
because I when I recommended this to you, I just recently watched it and you know,
that was a while ago now.
That was a long time ago.
I can't even remember what it was.
So I so I rewatched it and I cried again at the end, like the last episode.
It's impossible for it not to have that effect on you.
But yeah, let's talk about it, let's relive it,
let's re traumatise ourselves.
Exactly And like, OK, just to start off with,
if you haven't seen it, I would recommend going and watching it
before we talk about it.
Not necessarily that they'll be spoilers.
It's probably a hard I'd want to spoil because it's all about the experience of
watching it and kind of living these lives.
But I would say go go and watch it if you haven't already and then come back and
listen to the episode.
Just destroy yourself in a marathon 4 hour session and then come back and like
cry with us.
So let's talk about what it is.
So Adolescence is a four part miniseries.
It's a UK produced miniseries and was the story of a 13 year old boy called Jamie
who's accused of murdering A classmate, Katie,
in like a very violent way with a knife, multiple stab wound situation.
And the writer, Jack Thorne describes it as adolescence
isn't a whodunit, it's a why dunit.
So we learn fairly early on, kind of at the end of the first episode
that Jamie definitely did it.
Like we know that he did it first episode.
We think maybe he did, maybe he didn't.
Yeah.
I think the whole episode is spent wondering, did he?
Yeah.
And the answer is given by the end of that first episode.
And you see video evidence.
So it's not like you're just told you it's shown and not told.
So it's all about like, why do you do it?
And what is the impact, the effect of this crime on all the
people around him in the community and his family?
And how does everyone process and deal with that situation?
So from a production standpoint, like there's a few things that make it
unique as well.
Like it's as you said, very well acted.
All the actors chosen, amazing.
They do an amazing job, especially considering the fact that it
is shot in a single take.
So each of the four episodes, one hour long is 1 take from start to
finish, zero cuts.
So everything that happens, happens with 1 camera following the
action at all times, which we can't overstate how impressive
that is.
And you have to watch it to really appreciate it.
And once you've clued on to that, and I don't think I was fully clued on to
it, you had mentioned it, but as I was watching, you know,
I'm getting invested in the story, I didn't think about it too much.
And it starts to become evident.
And there are scenes where we're talking going from a close up shot to like this
drone footage.
And you're like, but literally how did they smoothly take
that camera from here to there?
And now we've got this like wide scene of this whole community.
Technically, this is obviously stuff that could never
have been done in the past.
Like, this is very recent technology making
this even possible for a start.
But just from a writing perspective, also like to write that in and to
understand how these scenes interplay and visually how that's gonna work on the
screen.
Like, it's just the next.
There are so many challenges there, like from a writing perspective,
like we talk about flash fiction and keeping it to 1 scene and avoiding too
many scene breaks and cuts.
You cannot have a scene break.
You can't just be like, they're here now, They're there.
Yeah.
You have to write all of the things that you want to express in like the moments
it's in between.
Like the first episode is about Jamie being arrested basically,
and then transported to the police station and so on.
And so you have to show these moments in between and kind of not make them boring
and make them add to the story, make them develop the characters.
So there's that riding challenge and there's also the technical challenge of
how do you follow that car around?
How do you like one mistake and it's all over kind of thing.
You accidentally bumped the camera on the way into the car and it's all over Red
Rover like.
Yeah, so I've got some stats here and a little
bit about how they filmed it.
So, so it was one shot, but it wasn't one take.
It's not like they nailed it the first time around.
And the way that they structured the shooting is that they had two takes per
day and then they would reset and like do it again.
And so 2 takes per day for a period of time over a number of days.
They would do it, do it again, do it again,
do it again until they got the right shot.
So there are 4 episodes.
Episode 1 was take two shot, shot on the first day,
second take basically.
Episode 2 was take 13.
So they do that 13 times.
Episode 3, take 11 and episode 4 take 16.
So this is like a week later.
Yeah.
Like you've had a week of doing this same scene and then you've got to do it again
the next week.
That's a full time job.
And obviously, like, it's not just you turn up and you, like,
do the lines.
These are really emotional performances.
They're also really, you know, talking about one shot.
They're not easy shots.
The technical complexity, like they change locations.
There's one scene where a kid runs through the window and the camera has to
follow him out through the window.
There's the drone shot you mentioned.
So technically very difficult to pull off.
And then in between, they're giving these really emotional
performances, not just remembering their lines,
but like having to like a mode on them, like, yeah,
as if it's the first time that it's coming out every time five days a week.
And like, this is 4 episodes, so that's like a month of just like
pouring your heart out there.
And so amazing performances from all the actors there.
I just want to maybe give a little outline of the episodes,
not point by point or beat by beat.
As we've said, it's very continuous.
But the first episode deals with the arrest of Jamie and it opens with a shot
in the car of Detective Inspector Bascombe,
who is the officer leading the arrest along with his partner,
Detective Frank as well.
And this is before the arrest, and obviously,
you don't know the rest is about to happen.
But what's interesting is, like, the tone it starts on and what's
happening in that scene.
And, like, do you remember what's happening in that
scene?
Yeah.
They're just talking about, like, Detective Baskin.
He's trying to give up cigarettes, and so he's eating up apples a lot.
Yeah.
And he's also talking about his son.
And his son has been, like, school refusal.
He's a teenager and not wanting to go to school, and he's dealing with that.
And I think the implication is that he himself was kind of like a cool guy
school and found that easy and his son maybe doesn't so much.
And so he's finding it hard to relate to his son and talking about how he's the
soft touch and he'll let his soundest off.
And so he's leaving it to his wife to tell his son to go to school.
Like all of these things, like very day to day kind of things.
So not to do with the current story at that point.
Yeah.
I don't know about you, but like watching this,
it's giving huge shades of Blake Snyder and Save the Cat.
Like we were talking when in our Save the Cat episode,
we were talking about Pulp Fiction and how it's the Quarter Pounder conversation
or whatever.
I like that's just humanising these guys.
And the next thing you know, it's like a bloodbath or whatever.
And so in this case, we've got this humanising scene.
We're just talking about, oh, I'm trying to cut down a cigarette,
something apples, and my son won't go to school and
chitchat and whatever, talking about just normal stuff.
And the next thing you know, they're busting down the door of, like,
just a normal house and arresting a young teenage boy,
telling the mother and sister to, like, get on the ground.
Like it's a proper raid on the House with, like, machine guns or whatever.
Like this is not just an arrest exactly.
Like, now that you've mentioned that, it's almost exactly parallel to that
opening scene of Pulp Fiction where they're like, you know,
Royale with cheese and they walk in and they're like, get on the ground.
Yeah, and that's exactly what it is, right.
And whether that's consciously done or not, that's exactly what's happening.
We've just got this completely normal start and watching it,
if you're watching that for the first time in this world that we live in now,
that's slow.
They're talking about apples.
Yeah, it's fun.
It's so slow.
And they're just sitting in a car.
It's very grey visually as well.
It's like very grey and boring and not a lot going on and next thing you know,
breaking down doors.
But I'll tell you what I love about that scene as well.
Going back to this idea of this is a why done it.
I've like I've got this spreadsheet here, this table in my notes.
Oh wow, with the themes and the components that
that link in with the themes.
And I'm not gonna talk about every single point,
but like I wanna see the spreadsheet.
We can talk to publish your spreadsheet.
We go through it, but and, and this kind of comes back to why I
think this is such a great show.
The discourse around the show is very much around the red pill stuff, you know,
the Andrew Tate stuff.
But what I think this show does really well is it points to this whole host of
societal issues.
And from the very opening scene, it's giving you reasons.
And we see this discussion with Detective Bascombe with his partner and what do we
hear?
We hear his son is trying to get out of school because he's sick.
Allegedly.
He calls his dad because he's a soft touch and his dad palms it off to his mum.
So that's already 1 little societal clue about parental relationships,
the role of men and women in society and how the responsibilities fall on various
people.
So right off in the outset, even in this little kind of Royale with
cheese discussion, we're getting the beginnings of that
exploration of why Jamie did it.
And there's the the whole series is filled with these these little moments,
but that's the very first one.
And then we go straight into the arrest scene.
So as you say, they knock down the door and, you know,
the family's at home.
They're just waking up basically to start the day.
And totally normal family.
Normal seeming family.
Yeah.
And it's the Miller family.
I didn't notice this until rewatch, but husband is called Eddie,
wife is called Amanda.
It's it's like a it's like a Holly Sadowski story.
And so Jamie gets arrested.
They're taken back to the police station, as I mentioned earlier,
like we don't know at this stage in the story what's happening,
whether he's done it or not, whether he's guilty.
We kind of assume he hasn't because we definitely assume he hasn't because he
keeps very emphatically professing his innocence as well.
Yeah.
And he's just like, I didn't do it.
I didn't do anything.
That's he's professors that the entire time time.
Yeah, almost till the end, I guess.
Almost till I like till the 4th episode subsequently, yeah, yeah.
So they take him back to the police station.
He gets this side like he chooses his father as appropriate adult,
which I think is a concept in the UK.
I'm not sure if we have it in Australia, but like I'm sure we have a similar thing.
Yeah.
An adult who will help the child along during that process.
He chooses his father, which is questioned at the time.
His mum's like, well, why wouldn't he choose me?
And I think that's also very telling.
There's just certain moments in this show that it just stand out to you.
And that was one of them.
Yeah.
Why would he choose his dad instead of his mum,
who presumably has always been by his side for this kind of thing, like,
anything that has been challenging for him.
And we see, like, again, these gender roles and,
and the way that his parents interact with him.
And his mother is always the one who, when he goes to gaol later on,
she's the one who's phoned the gaol and told them about, like,
his dietary requirements and things like that.
She's very caring, she'll do all of those things,
but on some level, Jamie knows that like, she's going to see right through him and
he's chosen his father in this situation because he's going to believe him.
Or is it that he doesn't want to just disappoint his mum and like, you know,
be exposed to that?
Well, maybe it comes back to that being the
soft touch kind of thing.
His father's going to be a little bit more accommodating.
Maybe he's going to be a little bit more gentle towards him.
So, you know, we have a lawyer arriving and we have
these various scenes where he's taken through this whole rigmarole of being
taken into the system.
You know, they have to search him, they have to strip search him.
It's it's very full on.
They interview him, they ask him all sorts of questions,
like what's your favourite subject at school?
He says he likes history because of the stories.
Like there's all these clues again that are paid off later.
And you you say that about paying off too.
And I think that's part of that opening scene that it gets paid off.
So the discussion about the son, the son goes to the same school as the
accused boy and his absence from school plays in again again later in the story,
but also his son.
It's the detective basket.
The detective son goes to the same school in like an older grade or whatever.
And so that social dynamic that he's experiencing is also the same social
dynamic that the accused boy is experiencing,
but from like a different perspective.
But also, like, the dynamics of, like, the dobbing and whatever, like,
that might go on within the school starts to come out and this idea of the
detective being sort of the cool guy and his son not and all of that.
And the school dynamics is played out in full later in the series.
But also, like, even the Apple thing is paid off.
Like, all of that gets paid off, like the cigarette dependence and all of
that gets addressed.
So none of it's wasted.
It's all character development.
It's all setting up the tension and the relationships that are coming.
And I think that's such a instructive thing to see that this opening scene,
which on first glance is kind of boring.
Yeah.
Is not.
Yeah.
It's not boring because it's introducing such crucial points of what's to come
next.
And, and OK, like you could have a more dramatic hook
sooner.
You could just bust in first.
Like that's a choice you could do.
You could bust in on the child in his bedroom first.
Yeah.
And they have chosen to instead start setting up the detectives before they do
that.
And it's an interesting choice.
And I think it's probably the right choice because this is not,
it's not an action.
It's not about that.
It's not about like that's part of it and the shock definitely gets you hooked,
but that's not the primary thing.
The primary thing is the real human thing.
And so when you start with a real human thing,
I think that's like you're setting yourself up for that response.
I want to dwell a little bit on that relationship between DI and Bascom and
his son.
I think it's a really great piece of writing because what that does is present
a counterpoint to Jamie's father and his son.
Because we're asking this question again, why done it?
And we look at Jamie, who's well adjusted boy,
his father for all intents and purposes, is quite caring and doing his best,
doing his best.
Whereas DI Bascom, he's a bit disconnected,
disconnected from his side.
You said he's too cool.
And I think that's part of the issue that he has is that, well,
his experience as a child was he was very popular, he was handsome.
He had all the girls after him.
He had a pretty easy adolescence.
And his son, in contrast, is pretty awkward.
He gets bullied and even though he's a police officer,
presumably with like some compassion or whatever he doesn't have or whatever he
doesn't have like a connection with his son, he palms him off to his wife.
He says in a scene like he phrased that does only I'm right,
the right parent for him.
But but he's basically saying like he doesn't connect.
He doesn't understand him.
He doesn't understand like, well, why aren't you just popular and why
aren't you just attractive and all these things?
And he's his poor son is just like a nerd who gets bullied and he can't deal with
it.
Not unattractive.
But the question still on TV, the question that the show asks is is
counterpoint, is I would get why that child is the one
that does the murder.
Yeah, and not the one that actually does.
So like, again, why done it?
You can't say it's the bullying.
Yeah, you know, because bullying doesn't make you kill
someone and you didn't in that situation.
Yeah.
And so that's like one question and one point of evidence.
Haven't you ever felt like that, though?
Like, not to get too real.
Yeah, but like you're the wrong parent for your
child.
Have you ever not felt that?
I think that is every parent.
You know, the kids are not going to be the same as
you.
And that's one of the challenges of of parenting, right,
is that you get what you get and you don't get upset.
How do you say you use my law against me?
And it's the recurring theme as well in the show,
like how how do you deal with kids who are different?
In Detective Bascombe's situation, his son is a nerd and gets bullied.
And he was never had that experience in Eddie's situation with his son Jamie.
Like Eddie was in sport and he was that kind of person, but his son is not.
And they don't connect with their children.
And so how do they deal with that?
All right, So they're at the police station and they
then go into like the police interview where this is the first time anyone's
been been exposed to the evidence.
And they're asking questions like, what did you do?
What was your relationship to Katie?
Kind of questions are of that nature.
And then they showed the the tape, they showed the recording of it.
And it's like right at the end of the last few minutes, you find out,
you see the tape and you realise he's done it.
We know he's done it.
The father has seen the tape and he realises that he's done it and that's
kind of where it ends.
I think that's pretty shocking.
That moment though.
And it is because you've spent the whole episode watching him deny it.
Yeah, he's innocent looking and you know what I
mean.
You wanna, you wanna believe?
Yeah, because he's a child.
He's a child.
And it's all released kind of drip feed, right.
Like you don't know at the start there's a 13 year old boy or whatever he is.
Yeah.
That's been accused of murder of a girl similar age in a violence stabbing of
what?
A Kitchener.
You don't know that.
That's all drip fed.
Yeah.
And so there's moments where you get more information throughout.
And that's, by the way, amazing from writing perspective.
It doesn't feel it's positional.
It's it's in the moment.
It gets drip fed at the right time.
And you're like, who?
Every time you're like, oh, more information.
Holy ****.
This is escalating, but in a meaningful way.
Not not in an overly like dramatic way.
It's real.
And you're watching this boy get strip searched and his father,
you're watching him the acting.
And by the way, the father, I believe Co wrote the screenplay.
So you are watching the father watch the boy get strip searched.
It's like palpable, his feeling of like, I am going to bash these guys abusing my
son.
Yeah, but that's what it feels like at that
moment because you're on his side and you're like, he's getting abused.
He's he's been stripped, poor innocent boy.
And you think if this was my child or myself or whatever,
like this is just abuse of power, like, hmm.
And the father who's just holding himself together but watching this.
Yeah.
And the acting is next level.
Like it.
It's beautiful and.
And gripping and awful, all of those things.
Yeah.
And it's Stephen Graham, by the way, the actor,
just to call out the actor slash writer.
Yeah.
So amazing performance and obviously amazing writing as well.
And then it moves on to when we see the security camera footage of him doing the
surfing.
Like, honestly, you say at that point we're just like, oh,
yeah, he did it.
But like, to me, you're almost not ready to accept that
And.
And you're like, hang on, is that him?
Is that?
Yeah, yeah, no, no, you watch it and you're like, wait, wait,
did I 'cause it happens very quickly.
Yeah.
I was like, oh, what happened?
Did he, did he punch her?
Yeah.
And we had to rewind and, and watch it again and like, oh, no, like,
he actually did it 'cause you don't want to believe it.
And then you're like, is him?
Like, are we sure?
Because he's been so emphatic and you have at that point,
no reason to think he did it.
But like, you can sort of really empathise with the
father there of like the shock and the like, wait,
did I see what I thought I saw her?
And like, let me start giving 1000 reasons why
that's not what I thought I saw.
That's your reaction to me at least as a viewer that you're trying to fill in the
gaps are like, oh, no, hang on.
There's got to be another explanation.
Like, and this is TV, right?
Like you're waiting for TV to come in and save you and be like, oh, no, no, no,
it's fine.
Like actually it was some other big evil guy who did this.
You know, you would expect you still really don't
know what kind of show it is at this point.
You don't.
And all of this watching it for the first time.
None of this is expected.
So when it happens, you're just raw.
Yeah.
That's part of the power of it is that you're, like,
completely thrown by what's happening on the screen.
And if you have children, like, they have lied to you.
Yeah.
And there's times when it's shocking.
Yeah.
And you're like, what?
And you want to believe them when they do lie.
Hopefully.
Not about murder, Hopefully.
OK, so let's move to episode 2.
Episode 2 is subtitled.
It's day three.
So first episode was day one of the arrest.
This is 2 days later, they go to the school.
So presumably what had happened was maybe on the Saturday and this is the Monday,
like school is back.
And so detectives go to the school to try and gather more evidence.
And what they're doing is like, they know that he did it,
but now they need to bring the case home to, to charge him.
They want it to find a motive and the weapon, right?
The, the weapon is the, the key thing.
They want to find the murder weapon, the knife.
But like the the key part of this episode that we see, which was like a shock to me,
is how ****** ** this school environment is.
We've got these kids running around.
There's no respect for the teachers.
There's no, I mean like empathy.
It's just a, it's a ******* **** show.
And fair enough.
It is a, a pretty fraught situation.
Like someone's been murdered and people are they're all over the place.
But it's clear that there are some systemic issues in the school that could
be contributing factors to the situation.
Like there's a fire alarm or whatever, it goes off and everyone evacuates the
tennis courts.
But the problem is what I noticed most about that,
it was like how stingy they were on their extras budget.
So I'm just noticing the kids extras, too, like they're cheap.
Yeah, come on, guys.
They have everyone evacuating out to these tennis courts,
but that's just not enough.
Yeah, I did not notice that, honestly.
And yeah, So there's fire drill or something that
will get taken out and, well, I think it's a like a bomb threat or
something, and a fight breaks out.
One of the kids, Ryan, one of Jamie's friends,
got into a fight and they got hit, taken to sickbay and interviewed by the
police officers.
So this is the point where this red pill slash manosphere is raised in the
discussion.
What I thought was interesting is so Andrew Tate was raised as a as a name.
And the teacher was like very oblivious to that faction.
And she was like, Oh, yeah, I've heard the kids talk about him.
In an interview with the creators that I watched,
and I'll link to it in the episode notes, they said that the Andrew Tate reference
is there for the parents because the parents have heard of Andrew Tate,
but actually the kids are watching different people.
So yeah, I thought that was interesting.
But like, I feel like that one throwaway line about
Andrew Tate, a lot of people encapsulate the whole
show as being about Andrew Tate, which I don't think it is.
I didn't even remember that he was mentioned.
I think it's a broader issue.
Certainly Red Pill culture and all of that is, to me, extremely alarming.
It's something that's on my mind, but it's not encapsulated in one decade.
You know, he's a proponent and whatever and he says
a lot of **** **** but there's a bigger issue at play and it's the
disenfranchisement of young men.
Well, the question is like, why is Andrew Tate and whoever effective
and why would people listen to the person like that?
And I think the rest of the show tries to point you in the direction of maybe This
is why or This is why and give give certain reasons.
And I think it's sad because I think I have daughters,
but I also believe that young men are important.
And I've always been a feminist, but my brand of feminism isn't anti men.
It's anti unequal treatment of people.
Like there's problematic stuff that exists all over the world,
but some of that comes in this form of this red pill culture, like.
That's that's an issue, but that's a response to something.
And I think it's a response to partially to feminism, right,
to women putting themselves forward and saying this is what's important to us and
people need to pay attention to this.
And men feeling like, well, what about me?
You feel like you're not being heard, but it's the way to be heard to stab a
young child.
No, not so much.
So let's find a different solution somewhere in there.
And obviously, I think there's a solution in there,
but unfortunately, I think that a lot of online culture is
geared towards these extremes.
And obviously your algorithm starts to pick up on what you're into and you just
start to get deeper and deeper into your extreme.
All right, so just to wrap up this episode,
the detectives interview some of the kids and they try to find two things.
1 is where is the murder weapon, which they eventually do find.
They catch Ryan, who runs out of the window,
jumps out of the window of the classroom and he gets chased down by Bascombe and
he tells him what happened.
He's like scared.
So they get that answer.
The other answer they're looking for is the motive.
And they don't really get that.
But then they realise like, I guess we don't need the motive.
We've got the murder weapon, we've got the video evidence.
We we've got enough to mount a trial.
So the episode ends on this kind of amazing drone shot that you mentioned
where the camera gets passed to a drone flies over the school to the car park
where Katie was murdered.
And there is Jamies dad laying some flowers at the place where she was
murdered.
And it's a moment that is very emotional.
And it it shows the fact that Jamie's dad, Eddie,
has come to terms with the fact that his son has done this.
We've kind of glossed over it, but I think especially in that first
episode, we're talking about moving from scene to
scene.
And there's some moments I think that are very artfully handled in terms of like,
OK, we've got the big dramatic scene where
they break into the house and arrest the boy.
And then we're following that up immediately by transporting him to the
police and then processing him at the police station.
And then now he's in the interview room for a start.
It's completely unbelievable from a realistic perspective in terms of how
quickly these things are.
And this is super stupid, but it is a little bit difficult at times
to suspend that disbelief.
So there's moments where it's like, hang on, she's in this early, you know,
to work.
Or normally we wouldn't have such a senior officer dealing with this
situation.
But like, OK, today, like just these glossing over of real
procedural issues that even as a casual observer, I'm not a police officer,
I'm not a police officer in the UKI don't know how things work,
but I also know that they don't work like that.
Like the murderers supposedly happened at like 10:30 PM the previous evening.
And by like 6:30 AM, they've got printouts of all the security
camera footage in the local region.
They're replaying security camera footage, not to minimise what's going on there,
but my car got damaged in the car park at Spotlight at West Gosford, right?
Like didn't mount a, they did not mount an investigation.
They're like, oh, those cameras, they're not real.
That's just a black dot on the side of the building.
Some suspensions of of disbeliever.
Like, you know, the from the moment of they are outside
his house to he's been processed in the police station.
He's had his cornflakes.
He he goes, he's had his cornies, as they say,
and they've watched the evidence video.
It's less than an hour.
And yeah, you're right.
That would be like a world record kind of situation, comments like that.
So the free lawyer that they get who they've only just authorised,
like the parents have only just said, OK, get this guy.
And now he's onto the case and he makes a comment like, oh,
it's a personal record for me then.
Oh yeah, that's a line of his.
They have these lines in there that to me are so annoying.
But like, thank God they're there because if he
didn't bother to address the elephant in the room, it would be a big problem.
It's stupid.
He's completely takes you out of it, Amanda.
And and not only that, but why was there no one else on the
tennis court?
Why was it just just that one or two classes?
Listen, I'm representative of a certain
proportion of the the viewing population that struggles with.
And why do they never go to the toilet?
Like, you know, seriously, Detective Bascombe just took the kid out.
They arrested him, took him back to the station.
And no one was like, I gotta take a ****.
All right.
So on that note, I'd like to move on to the next episode,
episode 3.
So what's interesting is that episode 2 did not feature Jamie at all.
He was not oh, in that episode I noticed because he was
in he was in gaol.
He's in gaol.
But now episode 3 is a time jump.
So seven months later is when it takes.
Oh, ****.
And this episode is just two people really.
Jamie, who I haven't said is played by Owen
Cooper.
But this episode is Jamie and like a psychologist by the name of Briony,
who's played by Erin Doherty.
So she's there on her fifth visit.
She's hired by the defence team to understand his frame of mind.
I think their intention is to paint him as, like,
too young to understand what he did potentially.
This one is all more or less in a room, more or less with two characters,
very dialogue driven, very like, character driven,
very silent of the Lambs.
Yeah, Yeah.
And really amazing performances from both of the actors, especially Jamie.
Let's be real.
So Briony's objective in the scene is like to understand what makes Jamie tick.
We don't see her report.
We don't see what she comes out of the situation with.
But we get a clear picture of the fact that he's competent enough to understand
what he's done and at least on some level what he's accused of.
But what we see is like the power play and his relationship with masculinity
with Brian, he being a a woman and he reacts to it.
He gets angry on several occasions.
So you're putting this in very like highbrow terms,
but basically he fully cracks the **** on multiple and scares her on occasions he
like loses his ****.
He's being super scary.
He's, he goes from just a normal interaction
where maybe he's a bit ****** *** or something to just being so aggressive and
violent or threatening maybe in his demeanour like a switch has flicked.
And that is what is amazing about the acting and the script and what have you,
but like really amazing acting where he's just a kid and then he's not and then
he's scary.
And that's key to this whole scene is that dynamic and that acting basically
like without that, this scene is nothing.
So I think that's really impressive on his part as a child child actor.
But yeah, also like you question her motives coming
into it as well.
Like it's kind of it's fascinating.
And his behaviour there with the like, suddenly quick to anger really mirrors
what we saw in the video with the way that he killed Katie.
I guess if you look for like, the immediate motive was that he felt
undermined as a man because he was kicked to the ground and that's what caused him
to stand up and stab her.
And you see the same dynamic here again and again,
you see twice in this scene where she exerts authority over him and he cannot
handle it and he loses his ****.
And obviously he's not violent in the same way.
He doesn't have a knife on him, but he exhibits the same behaviour.
And she sees it that like, this is the same person that killed
someone.
Yeah.
What what is also really fascinating from writing perspective about this episode is
this whole interaction with the security guard as well.
Like this security guy from the moment she walks into this place,
she's confronted with this security guard who bans the little CCTV room.
And he's super creepy from the start.
Like he's he's following around.
He he's watching her make a remember this part.
You don't remember this?
No, he's watching her make a hot chocolate
for him.
And when she has to leave the interview room,
she goes back and says I want to see him on the CCTV.
And so she goes to this guy and says show me.
And then he's super creepy around her the whole time.
And it's super weird and awkward.
But like just that extra layer of like, meanwhile,
while she's dealing with all this, there's this whole other, you know,
male relationship there.
But you know, it's probably this episode, the climax, I think of the series.
We get a little bit of an insight into his character.
We now see a glimpse into the kind of person even this 13 year old boy can
become.
And there's one more episode.
Episode 4 is 13 months later, 13 months after the arrest.
Presumably a lot has happened in the background,
but we're back with the family and this is a really great episode.
Like all of them are in their own different ways,
but now we're kind of left to reflect on what's the impact on the family.
Even a year later.
They're like trying to deal with the effects of that.
Jamie's been locked up for over a year.
So we open, it's Eddie's birthday and they're
planning some fun times to to presumably distract themselves from all that's
happened.
But they find that the van, Eddie's van, his work van, he's a plumber,
has been van delighted.
Oh my God, help.
Someone has written the word ***** on his van.
They misspelt it, but they've read the word ***** which
means ********** right?
Yeah.
Because not everyone knows what that means.
You know what though?
I found that really unsettling because there's a comment made in the first
episode pretty early on about I had a case like like this previously and we
found out later, too late basically that the dad was
insert your imagination here.
And so when that starts to come out, you're like, well,
where's that coming from?
Is that coming from a real place?
Have they got evidence of?
And because you've already been completely thrown by that first episode
where you've just believed the child because he's so emphatic until the
footage, right?
So in this case, sort of similar thing, like, well, I don't know, is he a *****?
And if so, is this what's impacted his son?
Is this something broader?
Like that's the scary thing?
And and even by the end, I guess you don't know the answer to that
question.
Like, why are they saying that?
That's come out of nowhere in the context of why anyone would do that.
Like it's not like you're saying like murderer's dad.
That's not what you're painting onto the side of the truck.
And to be fair, like there's not any fear feeling that
that's an issue within the story, but also there's no feeling that the kid
did it at the start.
So like, it's like, it's like it was a really interesting
choice from a writing perspective.
Like, why go in that direction?
Yeah, that specifically as opposed to any other
slur or.
But like, one of the things that I think it
highlights is, you know, assumptions about men and not even
explicit assumptions because I think we find out later the kids that did it are
just like ******** *********.
And that's what they wrote.
It's just a word.
But that's just the word that you write that incriminates a man.
And whether it's right or wrong or related, it doesn't really matter.
They're not really thinking it through.
And there's no other implication in this story that he's anything apart from, like,
a caring father.
Yeah.
So I mean, the repercussions of this is they have to
try and get the paint off.
Like, he's got this van.
It's his work van.
He's got a plumbing business now.
It's it's got the word ***** on the side of it.
He wants to get it off.
He tries to wash it off.
He can't because it's spray paint.
They go to whatever the UK equivalent of Bunnings is.
So he ends up saying let's just buy some paint.
You buy some blue paint.
In the meantime, he sees the two kids that he thinks have
done it and he has a bit of a violent episode.
He catches them, he interrogates them.
He kind of punches them, knocks them over, gets angry and ends up throwing the paint
on the side of the van, like, just washing that word off.
And, you know, really interesting interaction,
like the fact that he reacts that way in that moment.
It's got an echo of the way that his son reacted in the moment where he killed
Katie.
Yeah, it's true.
It's kind of scary, I think, sometimes to draw that link between what
is kind of normal behaviour or relatable behaviour at least,
versus going way too far.
And I think that's what this series does really well,
is make you feel like that could be me.
Yeah.
So he throws the paint on the van, They drive off and they're back home.
And basically, that's the day it was his birthday.
It was supposed to be a special day.
It was supposed to be the day where they kind of put aside this ******** that's
been happening the last year with his son, didn't go that way.
And then I guess coming to terms with the fact that, like,
their son is a murderer and, like, what caused it.
And we're all trying to work it out, and we don't get clear answers,
but we get some insights.
The ending of the episode and the show is this idea that like,
regardless of what we say, we made him.
He's our son.
And we've got to come to terms with the fact that like,
maybe we could have done better.
And that's the part that makes you blow your eyeballs out.
They try, like they try, they try and then just normal people.
And then there's no question they could have done things better or differently,
as there is no question with every parent who's ever existed.
Like as if you don't question yourself.
And I could have been less harsh or more harsh, right?
Like there's no correct answer.
It's one or the other, and they're having to grapple with that.
But like, at the extreme of like, we've created a monster.
Yeah, Yeah, in theory.
But like, have they or, like, did society create it?
Like, that's the question.
But of course, the blame's always gonna come and fall
back on the parents, so.
And they've obviously got a daughter who's just fine.
And.
And they asked like, how did we make her?
She's amazing.
And they said that like, the same way that we made him.
Yeah, like the exact same way.
And their daughter had the same family environment.
So it wasn't the family environment.
Other kids were bullied more.
Like, Detective Bascombe's kid was also bullied
much more clearly in the show.
Like, it wasn't the bullying.
Jamie had a friend group, and his friends were also, like,
in the same situation.
They never killed anyone.
Like, what causes it?
Is it a problem that we can solve?
I think what's telling is him, right?
Like, especially in Episode 3, I guess, when you've got this interaction between
him and the psychologist.
Yeah, he's got like a a split personality
situation going on.
Yeah.
He's got a certain side of himself that he shows that he's the very normal
inverted commas side of himself and then he flips and he's just someone else.
But what's interesting as well is his father's got that and he his his father's
never guilty.
But like also does he like to that point of like he's shown to,
he's got the same behaviour.
Is it quick to anger?
And but like there's quick to anger and then there's like, yeah, dead eyes.
Yeah, quick to to anger.
Do you know what I mean?
Like this, it's not just you **** me off and I'm
escalating.
It's like my mask is off.
I don't give a **** about you.
My empathy's gone.
This is just real.
Now.
What have you got for me?
If you've got nothing, I don't care.
That's different to like I'm at my limit and I'm flipping out and I can't control
my anger.
Like they're different, but you're right.
But it's also like, it's this quality of difference that's
really interesting because he's a 13 year old kid.
And if he hadn't have been in that situation, if he didn't have the knife,
maybe he would have grown up to be a better person as well.
Maybe he would have grown up to be more like his father who was doing his best to
like control it and doing better than what his father.
So like, there's so much luck involved as well.
And you look at these characteristics and you point to them and say like,
that's why.
But at the same time, like, didn't have to be.
Are you familiar with We Need to Talk About Kevin?
I've heard of it, but I haven't watched it.
So I've read the book and I've watched the film,
and I think there's a lot of similarities here.
Like it's different.
It's definitely different.
But when you come to thinking about, I guess,
motivations for doing things and parents of perpetrators and their role in it and
stuff is a lot of parallels and it's a lot to think about.
And both of them are just stories and things to think about.
They're not a Bible of how you should live your life by any means.
But what I think is interesting about we need to talk about Kevin is it's like a
through line that he's always been this way.
Yeah.
It's like he was Born This Way.
Like he was problematic from baby.
Yeah.
And there's, you know, an element of is there like a post Natal
depression or a post Natal disconnect that has fed this or is it him and he has
some emotional deficiency from birth or whatever it might be?
Like, I'm not here to, like, answer those questions.
It's an interesting way to look at it.
But from my perspective, a child that from birth showed some
abnormalities that I guess proved to be a big problem.
Yeah.
At teenage years and I can see like some similarities here.
You know, you've got a perfectly normal inverted
commas family.
They clearly loved him.
It's a normal upbringing.
We imagine there's been no abuse or any reason,
like major reason for him to behave the way he's behaving.
Maybe he's been swayed by, you know, social media or whatever.
But like, he's just a kid and he's had a life and
his parents love him and they do their best and they're not perfect,
but they do their best.
And yeah, it's to me a question of like, is he a psychopath?
Like, is there an innate yeah trade in him
which has been just triggered?
And he's not just a kid, but I think that is a reasonable
explanation.
Like it is just his personality.
Maybe it could have been any number of these things.
Hmm.
And like, that's the note that Episode 4 ends on is
not an A note of we know why This is why it's really like.
Well, we don't, but can we accept the fact that maybe we
should have done more?
And I think that's more a societal yeah, that's for us.
That's not fair.
Yeah, yeah.
For the viewer to to think about and think, well, hey,
like we all live in this society, like maybe we should do more.
And however you want to take that, is it the school situation?
Is it people not receiving the the support they need?
Is it familial?
Is it whatever?
We could probably do more.
First of all, this is the ******* messiest we've been
in class.
Sometimes this is a really messy episode.
I guess it comes through like, I, you know what back my editing skills that
maybe this comes off as being coherent intellectuals, not coherent.
Like, what kind of next?
It is almost 3:00 AM and we started recording at ******* six or something
like it was it was nine hours ago.
Oh, my, good.
On that note.
OK, so I'm ready.
I'm ready to wreck you.
I'm being excited because I came up with this idea back in May, OK.
And I'm like, this is great.
This is I'm very excited.
So what I've decided essentially is that I keep talking about Edgar Allan Poe
little flippantly, without honestly knowing that much about
him.
No.
And I've decided to wreck us both some Poe.
OK, so that we could be a little bit more
educated.
And what I did was I contacted Chris from the Edgar Allan Poe Museum, and I said,
what would you recommend?
Because I don't know.
I want to recommend something good to you.
I don't know.
Yeah.
And unfortunately for both you and I, he's a big fan and gave us a massive list.
So the the title of this a pamphlet is reading Rex for perverts.
We did you time.
Listen, that was me.
OK?
He's not like, yes, let's not, let's not not put words in his mouth.
All right.
So, but the rest of the words are mostly his.
So there's a whole list of fiction.
So we didn't even get into pose poetry.
First of all, like I guess my initial question was
around single effect thing, like tell me more.
And he gave some great recommendations for that, one of which I've already read.
And then he went on to give some biography recommendations,
like information about pose life and then a whole bunch of fiction wrecks.
And I think what's fascinating and what a lot of people like me probably don't
realise is that, you know, he wrote funny stuff, he wrote comedy,
he wrote sci fi, he wrote like, we know his horror,
we know him for that and his dark stuff.
But he's actually very multifaceted writer and honestly, like,
absolute flash fiction.
King Yeah, he would have loved it.
So I think there's a lot to learn.
And so I'm not expecting you to read everything on that list on that pamphlet,
as you say.
But I guess the challenge for both of us is to just read what we can between now
and then.
OK, and just form some some views, form some ideas,
start to think about Poe and what he's got to teach us and like we'll all learn
together.
We can all be proper perverts instead of just, you know, dabbling.
So this is in the order that they were shared by Chris,
who who's the curator at the museum.
I will share this list of stories on our website so that people can join in if
they'd like to.
And there's links to each story because of course they're out of copyright.
So you can go and link into all these stories.
And I've also provided, for everyone's benefit, just word count,
rough word count for each story so that you get an idea of what you're eating for.
But overall, just those fiction stories alone is over
100,000 words, which is just just a hefty novel.
No, it's a novel.
It's not crazy, but that's what we're dealing with.
So listen, that's your list.
It's recommended.
Not by even me.
So do your best and I look forward to your thoughts and feelings.
Amazing.
I'm looking forward to reading this and we'll talk about this next episode when
you can ******* string a second together.
Totally.
It's all right.
We've all been there, especially me.
You were there like literally like 20 years ago.
That's why I'm under the blankets now.
I'm fine.
Can you wrap it up for me?
Like can you like OK, listen, it's on Struggle Street,
so I'm going to have to wrap it up today.
So until next time, right on, right on.
Thank you for listening to Not Quite Right.
If you'd like to reach us via email or follow us on social media,
you can find all the links on our website notquiterightpodcast.com.
That's WRITE.
And if you enjoyed the show, we'd love it if you could leave us a five
star review on your favourite podcasting app.
Something doesn't seem quite right.
So the next point of housekeeping, I guess,
is that we were at words on the wave.
So about a month calling it housekeeping.
That's that's the thing I really like.
I'm here to avoid.
OK, All right, OK, so we got back from I don't want to say
that when it was back a month ago, it's eight years ago,
but we've been releasing.
You talk about that releasing, been releasing and storing it up all over
your feet.
Oh God, that's the the theme for next just feet
must involve A vagrangle.
That's quite a prompt.
Like do you reckon you'd be sick of vagrangles when we can't do it just be
like just like 2 completely normal prompts.
And then just let's include the word vagrangle must involve a picnic,
must like feature the word place in a church.