The following is a special presentation of the Not Quite Right Podcast,
in which we discuss in detail entries to our ****** flash fiction competition,
the Not Quite Right Prize for Flesh Fiction.
This episode contains adult themes and is not appropriate for listeners under the
age of 18.
And mum, if you're still listening, that's on you.
Something doesn't seem quite right.
Hi.
My name's Ed and I'm Amanda.
Oh.
Did you think it was over?
Did you think flesh fiction was over?
Well, not quite.
Because it's time for our bare devils.
And listen, we're not going to go easy on them.
We're going to ride them rough and raw and painfully.
Listen once again.
I've never been more turned off in my life.
So listeners of the podcast will be very familiar with our Daredevil episodes.
And when we talk about daredevils, we normally like to say that they have
the honour and the privilege of having their story eviscerated, ribbed to shreds,
annihilated, decimated.
But our baredevils are going to be perhaps penetrated.
So we'll be reading some very sexy stories.
We'll be talking about the stories, breaking them down, sharing our thoughts.
Hopefully we'll all learn something in the process.
If not, we'll at least have a bit of fun.
I know I will.
So, a willing victim for this round?
I don't know.
Is it a victim?
I think we're the victims.
I feel like the victim a little.
You know, as excited as I am to share this story
with everyone because I do think it is wonderful,
I'm also a little bit nervous about reading it a little bit out of practise.
It's been a while.
It has our Bare Devil.
Our very first Bare Devil is Jenny E and it's Denny's first piece of ******
fiction, we've been told, and that would be the case for a lot of
our entrance.
I feel this is their first time venturing outside their comfort zone to write
something saucy.
This story features in the kink and taboo category,
which was one of the smaller categories, right?
So there were only a few places really in the long list.
So it was very hard fought and unfortunately,
this one didn't make the cut, but it came very close, very, very close.
So I think without further ado, let's read the damn story.
Let's be uncomfortable for a little while, OK?
And then we'll come back and talk about it.
And the story is voyeurism and exhibitionism.
HOA approved by Jenny E.
Unmistakable moans and the rhythmic splashing of water on skin fills the air
from my second floor balcony.
I lean into the darkness, eyes scanning neighbouring backyards,
searching for the source of pleasure, spilling shamelessly into the night.
I'm not proud of my regular voyeurism, but I'm not embarrassed either.
Shame requires the energy of caring, and I'm too tired for that most days.
Too tired of being the tragic, too fragile to **** neighbour widowed at
39 years old.
Here in seaside backyards are more of a suggestion than a sanctuary.
Small patches of grass are typically only occupied by mud filled outdoor showers,
built less for modesty and more for the design not to trek sand into luxury beach
homes during the day.
The showers serve their intended purpose, but this summer,
without any obvious coordination, just after midnight,
all visible from my back porch, a not so secret community of
exhibitionists uses their showers for a very different purpose,
each one hoping neighbours are watching and wanting.
Tonight's groaning is closer than usual and the scent of lavender soap permeates
the air.
It's been 4 weeks since the for sale sign vanished and the lights flickered on next
door.
Now, for the first time, there's movement.
Steam rises from the outdoor shower, unveiling a solo body.
His back is to me, one arm braced against the cedar wall as
his other strokes up and down.
Well, hello new neighbour.
The ocean breeze parts my white silk robe, exposing my unkempt pubic hair that
hasn't seen a man up close since Jacob's boating accident 3 years ago.
I sink into a wide cushioned patio love seat,
hungry for whatever tonight dares to reveal.
Dancing string lights from the yellow house 2 doors down catch my eye.
A man presses a woman against the shower wall and kisses her with desperate
tenderness.
My knees tremble watching them, remembering the feeling of skin on skin,
of love.
He lifts her and she instinctively wraps her legs around him.
A few pelvic presses later, he loses his grip.
They laugh.
It's real, intimate, messy and alive.
I miss that.
A steady patter of water comes from the brick house behind me.
A new woman, a younger version of his wife with
balloon like **** arches her back against the shower wall.
The man kneeling in front of her with his face buried between her legs rocks his
head in tune with her moans.
She sees me watching, holds my gaze and raises the pitch of her
pleasure cries.
I plunge my finger into my wetness and move with intentional thrust designed for
a quick climax.
Her likely fake titillating moans change direction, seeking another's attention.
Her eyes are on my new neighbour and his eyes are on me.
Still stroking, still too shy to show me all of him,
but not enough to shift his line of sight.
His pace quickens and his back muscles tighten.
Leaning into the chaos of our unplanned **** I watch him while listening to her.
Our synced boisterous moans warn the neighbourhood we are about to climax.
Loud whimpers simultaneously push from our three loins,
shiver through our core and exit our mouths,
an unquestionable signal we are all thoroughly satisfied.
He silences his shower, his eyes remain averted as he turns to
grab his towel.
*** **** proudly hanging to the centre of his thighs, glares at me, taunting me.
Chiselled ABS and defined quads serve as a background to his masterpiece.
Who is he?
Two nights later, at 12:10, AMI rise from my balcony perch,
peeling away the silk robe clinging to my humidity drenched skin.
A sharp breath escapes at the sight of a tall,
recognisable manly silhouette with broad shoulders and defined arms standing in my
yard.
Sorry, I didn't mean to scare you.
He says with an unapologetic smile.
I'm Cooper, I just moved in next door.
My towel blew off my deck into your yard.
I was going to call out, but I didn't want to interrupt you.
Blood rushes to my face.
So you just stood there watching?
I ask, taking a sip of my wine to gather my
thoughts.
He shrugs.
It's only fair considering you look first.
I nearly choke.
Cooper continues, stepping close enough for me to smell his
lavender body wash.
It's OK.
Outdoor showers make good theatres.
I like the show, too.
Half mortified, half delighted, I say, you are very forward.
I'm a widower, he replies softly.
I've learned not to waste time.
That news, and it's ensuing familiar silence swell
between us.
Well, if you tell still missing, let me know.
I'll look in the morning.
I'm Molly, by the way.
I sit down, clambering for comfort.
I will.
He grins.
And Molly, if you ever feel like talking, I'm around.
It's just me over there.
He slips back into his house like a man who understands the art of good timing.
I sit quietly, my heart unexpectedly light.
Two nights later at 12:07 AM, wiggling my toes in the Dewey grass,
I stare at the shower head hanging ominously,
untouched since the summer of Jacob's death.
Cobwebs thicker than the ones on my vagina hover in the corner.
It's just a shower, I whisper.
I turn the water on and let my robe slip off my body.
Warm water slides down my spine.
It's heat loosening the tense anger I've perfected over these last years.
I rake my fingers through my hair, slicking it back.
Curtains move in dimly lit windows.
Is it the wind or are they watching?
I turn, presenting myself.
I want them to watch.
This is for no one, for everyone, for me.
Moonlight spills across my breasts as I lather them, caress them,
grazing ******* made hard by my own hands.
There is something bold and wickedly delightful in this act,
Not because it's sexual, but because it's my moment,
a small taste of freedom from despair.
I bite my lip, slide my middle finger down to my ****
tracing tight circles ever so slowly.
Timidity, sadness, confidence and excitement swirl, ecstatic,
but my skilled finger, now pulsating like a high end vibrator,
cuts through the chaos.
Eagerness takes hold.
I slip my finger in and out as the palm of my hand repeatedly rubs my ****
seeking a slow and rewarding return.
My body quivers from head to toe.
Two nights later at 11:55 PMA, soft clink chimes on my patio table.
I move the curtains slightly and see a glass of wine with a note tucked under.
Cooper is already walking back to his yard wearing only white linen pants and a
smug grin.
I wait until he disappears and slip out the door to read the note.
Enjoy the wine.
This is my favourite Zinfandel.
You missed a good one last night.
Couple in the tan house handcuffs.
I laugh aloud for the first time in years as I walk back into the house and curl up
in bed, consumed by a single thought.
I **** my clip, purposely imagining someone who isn't
Jacob.
Two nights later, at 9:15 PM, knock, knock.
Cooper is standing at the door, dripping wet, holding a grocery bag.
Looks like the rain is putting a damper on tonight's entertainment and I can't
eat this tub of ice cream alone.
We sit by the back window and with each lightning flash I catch a clearer glimpse
of his telling smile lines.
So how are you liking the new house?
I ask.
It's different, which is what I needed.
Feels good.
Did the move help you get over her?
It hasn't erased the pain, but it's given me a new sense of hope.
It's like a spark ignited.
He holds my arm, letting me know he's ready for more.
I'm not.
The next night at 11:59 PM, another note sits on my back table.
I haven't stopped thinking about you.
Come join me.
Not for a new beginning, just for a moment in time with an open
ending.
I hover at the edge of my porch, clenching the stairs railing.
The air is thick with salt and silence.
My bare feet sink into the cold stairs and wood creaks under me.
Each step down is slow and deliberate, as if every descent is a choice I've been
putting off for years.
Next door, the steady rush of a shower hammering
against rocky surfaces blends with the pounding of my heart,
both echoing in the stillness of the night.
Steam curls into the night, veiling the outlines of his body,
but not quite enough.
I drop my robe and step inside the shower.
Without a word, Cooper turns entirely towards me.
Our eyes meet and I feel that same bothersome excitement that has been on my
mind for days as the water engulfs me.
I let go of everything I've been trying to put behind me and it washes down the
drain.
So thank you Jenny E for your sexy story.
I need a shower, Jenny, an outdoor shower specifically.
So before we get into the story, we actually had a chat with Elise,
our guest judge for the category, who shared their thoughts about the story.
So we will play that discussion now.
Hello Elise.
Hi, tell us your thoughts about this story.
I really enjoyed this story.
The premise of it was a lot of fun for me.
I have, I have never been to a physical community
of voyeurists and exhibitionists, but I've known groups or communities of
voyeurists and exhibitionists who get together and do like little kink parties.
So seeing it taken to the next level was really enjoyable for me.
This is though, a bare devil, right?
So I'm not supposed to be all bubbly and kind.
Yeah, we don't go easy on our bare devils.
But you bring that up and it's it's interesting because Ed's initial comments
on this story, after reading your comments was like,
hang on what?
These communities exist?
I've been living in the wrong area my whole life.
Yeah.
I wasn't sure based on your comment is are these established communities solely
for this purpose or are they little sub communities that arise out of existing
locations where people who live there are on the same wavelength?
I would assume the latter 'cause I have not across a community where it's like
the ethos of the community that everyone like goes outside and, you know,
engages in exhibitionist sexual activities.
So what I am much more familiar with is where a person who's ***** and has maybe
a house or a property that's like expansive or private enough,
we'll have a party and everyone will come over.
And so there's munches, which are vanilla friendly parties where
anybody is welcome and you can come to the, it sounds naughty, but it's not,
it's the one that's not naughty.
You go to a munch to learn about the kink lifestyle and to meet ***** people.
And you can, there might be people like in a collar or
leash or like in a corseted up or wearing the boots or whatever,
but there's not going to be any like really ******** kink going on at a month.
You're not going to like see blood play or anything like that,
but then once you're in the community, then you can get invited to ***** parties
that have themes to them or maybe are just like a place where everyone can go
for an evening or a weekend and just kind of let loose.
What you're trying to say is that these munch parties are like in a moose bouche.
So take a little munch.
But tell us your thoughts on this story in particular as well.
So I know Jenny was keen for your feedback.
Yeah.
So one of the things that I really loved was the way that the voyeurism and
exhibitionism piece of the story was almost like a character the individual
participants in this community didn't really flesh out as separate,
rich characters for me.
And with more space, that's something I really would have
loved to see.
But the main purpose of the community was a vehicle for the healing journey of this
character.
So like so many ***** people, there's like a healing arc embedded in
the kink.
And for her, it was like.
Like releasing was kind of her core theme and I felt like the role that the other
exhibitionists and voyeurists in the community were playing for her was
holding that space so that there were the slow releasing became possible.
There were very specific moments of vulnerability for her in the times that
she was watching, like the moment where it says he lifts
her and she instinctively wraps her legs around him.
A few pelvic presses later, he loses his grip, and they laugh.
And this moment of, like, you know, sex isn't always perfect.
It's not like the way that we remember when we're grieving.
It's sloppy and awkward and damp.
And then that almost.
That's hot, moist, moist.
Exactly.
No, you're right.
I think that moment resonated with me as well.
Like, you know, and I think the words are used there.
It's real.
Yeah.
It's not all the fantasy.
There's, there's like, human connection that happens in that
moment.
And I thought that was conveyed very well in this story.
And and I did get that sort of emotional punch from that moment in the story.
I did too.
I did wish so.
The character has like this journey of releasing,
and the latter half of the journey is sort of facilitated through her
attraction to and eventually her assume sex with Cooper.
And I like that.
Where I really struggled with this story was that I didn't feel as though at the
end the sort of like, and then all of my issues washed down the
drain.
Peace was a very satisfying resolution because at least for me,
grief is so much more complex than that and kink can be so much more complex than
that.
So this vehicle gives you a lot of room to play with the pieces of that that are
carried and then the pieces of it that are released.
And maybe it was an issue of word count because that is a pretty big ask for such
a short.
I would have loved to see there were a couple of spots where,
like the second to last paragraph, Cooper turns entirely toward me.
Our eyes meet and I feel that same bothersome excitement that has been on my
mind for days.
And I love the sense of conflictedness in that word bothersome.
But if the next line that is like I let go of everything I've been trying to put
behind me and it all washes down the drain.
I feel like that moment of opportunity that is offered by the word bothersome or
even a more evocative and powerful world word like traitorous,
if that's how she's feeling, could have lent a lot more ambiguity and
complexity to that moment.
And so instead of giving us kind of like an uncomplicated HEA,
we could have had something a little more subtle and nuanced.
I would have loved to.
I agree very strongly with you.
I think for me and Ed and I might talk about it in more detail a bit later as
well, but that that final line I found quite
unsatisfying.
I have my own grief.
It's not this kind of grief.
I haven't lost a partner, but I have experienced quite significant
grief.
And I think this idea of washing it down the drain didn't resonate with me.
From my perspective, that's not what you do with a profound
grief.
It never washes down the drain.
It's always with you.
And I think there were other options there.
I think the sentiment was right.
You know, this idea of like, I've been holding on to all this stuff
and the idea is that she wants to release it.
And I think that that sentiment is good.
And that's a powerful and resonant sentiment.
And in that moment, I think it's just that metaphor of
washing down the drain that didn't quite land for me.
And it sounds like it didn't quite land for you either, Elise,
and that maybe there was another metaphor.
And, you know, in this story, we do talk about the steam as well,
the steam of the shower.
Like that grief might be the steam.
Like, it's there, but you can't quite grasp at it.
Like there are other metaphors that I think might have lent into that release
without giving this idea of, Oh, well, it's all just gone now and disappeared
and we don't see it ever again, which is what I would associate with
something washing down the drain.
There are some moments of rigidness too.
There's the cobwebby vagina.
It's like essentially locked away.
And there are other moments where the overarching experience that I get of the
main character is this rigidness or this being like locked down or locked away.
And I feel like if you're exploring relief and you're really attached to that
drain metaphor, instead of everything being released,
just the resistance to moving forward would be a really beautiful, you know,
the feeling that sadness still and maybe even feeling that twinge of
traitorousness still.
But also finally, like relaxing into that moment.
About halfway through, there's a line.
He holds my arm letting me know he's ready for more.
I'm not.
And that's another moment where like the abruptness of that statement and then the
transition to the next night being like, Oh yeah, OK, now I am.
I wasn't, but now I am.
Feels maybe like another opportunity to have more vulnerability and uncertainty.
Yeah, I think you're right.
And you're right that it's, you know, it's a short story.
In fact, in my comments, I was saying this would make an amazing
novel.
And some stories are too big for the word count.
I think this story did well within the word count.
I think it's probably a big ask to, you know, ask it to do everything.
And it's the conflict, this inner conflict of I want this but I
don't want this or I want this but I'm not ready for it.
And it's such an important emotion to explore.
And I think that Jenny does that really well here.
But yeah, we don't ever quite get the opportunity
to really delve into it because we're kind of at this surface level and jumping
from moment to moment.
But I love how you frame that about I want this,
but I don't want it because that is such a core aspect of the kink experience for
so many people.
Like I want to feel shame because then I can release it.
So I need someone to shame me.
OK, you see.
But I don't actually like to be shamed.
I just need the release of being shamed.
That kind of dynamic.
I think particularly with the voyeurist and exhibitionist,
that being seen and the seeing peace and the sort of wanting and not wanting peace.
There's so much opportunity to explore how incomplete grieving always is,
like forever, you know, you never are done with it.
It's, it's more about learning to live with the
feeling of that empty spot where something used to be and learning to
carry it and move forward with it and eventually take comfort in it instead of
just letting it be washed off.
I think as an extension of that, there's a line in the story and it's a
line of dialogue, you know, where they're talking about him moving
into this community.
And she says to him, did the move help you get over her?
And he says, it hasn't erased the pain, but it has given me a new sense of hope.
It's like a spark ignited.
And again, I think that's a nice sentiment.
But at the same time, that really didn't quite hit home for me.
She's experiencing her own grief.
And when she says, did the move help you get over her?
I just can't imagine that being something someone who has experienced grief would
say.
You know, you don't ever get over that person.
In my view, that's not what you're seeking.
What you're seeking is to move on with life without them,
but not to ever kind of forget they existed or get over them like you might
an ex, for example.
So I think there was this kind of disconnect a little bit for me between
what I experienced as a as a real sense of grief and what was being expressed in
this story as, as how grief might play out in this
situation.
So that's me as a reader.
I can only speak to my own reaction to what's happening in this story.
And that's not everybody's reaction, but I think that's the same thing that I
was kind of reacting to in that final moment as well around it washing down the
drain and just feeling like that's not really how that feels for me.
And again, I'm not I'm not talking about a partner
in in my situation, but it's still that same sense of
carrying grief with you through life.
We talk a lot about flash fiction of having character change and character
development and kind of sticking the landing.
I think there is like a desire to end your story with like something
significant happening, but maybe when you're dealing with such a
complex emotion like grief, you need to give it a little bit more
space and not closing out on a definite decision.
It can be just a small point of change rather than a large point of change.
So this is definitely not something you could fit in 1500 words,
but it would be such a fascinating character flaw if the main character
score issue is the inability to see that nuance.
And so she's been locked into like rage and misery for three years,
which we get that piece of information fairly early on.
And the reason she's stuck is because she sees it as all or nothing.
Then this moment in the story where she's like an all my grief washed down the
drain would be like that midpoint false high where she would be like,
I feel great.
And then she would go home and like, *** into her pillow and get absolutely
hammered and then not be able to look the guy in the eye the next day.
Like that would be really interesting.
But that's a novel now.
And, you know, that's not particularly helpful when
we're trying to tell a story in 1500 words.
And I have to say, I think this story was beautiful in 1500
words.
Like we, I think it's telling that we all want
more of it, you know, and, and that I said, like,
I'd love to read this novel.
Like I think that expresses something about the characters, you know,
wanting more is pretty strong praise of a of a 1500 word story.
I want to ask as well, Elise, just around apologies,
but I keep coming back to this idea of these voyeuristic and explicit
communities.
Fascinated by this idea.
When I think about voyeurism and exhibitionism,
normally it's like there is the ****** and there is the exhibitionist.
In this story there are people, in fact the main character taking on both
the role of the ****** and the exhibitionist.
I just wanted to ask, in your experience how common that is?
Is is it more the case where people might exhibit traits of both or they might be
heavily one or the other?
I've seen plenty of examples of both and actually really liked that about this
story because the main characters movement through the process of starting
out as solely A ****** and then moving towards becoming exhibitionist also,
that's so complicated and lovely and it's such a great opportunity to explore what
the character's arc really looks like.
And I also thought that the complexity of some of those voyeuristic moments,
there was like a woman with very large breasts that like is staring at the man
who's staring at the main character, who is staring at the woman with the very
then they're having this moment of all of them navigating their own stuff.
And that's like the thing, the way the way the line between
voyeurism and exhibitionism can often become kind of blurry is when you're
receiving the experience of being perceived and like even maybe being
judged and then kind of getting a thrill from like knowing that you're breaking
norms or expectations or that someone is wanting you and can't have you or
whatever it is that's exciting to you about that part of the process.
And then also having that power of perceiving someone else and knowing that
they have no control over what's in your mind and they're aware of that and that
your gaze is influencing their experience.
So there are not a tonne of very straightforward dynamics in kink.
There's a lot of this sort of mashing together of like having power and by
having it also losing power, which I think is one of the things that's
so appealing to people about it.
But certainly there are like, pure voyeurs and there are pure
exhibitionists in those pieces.
You'll often find yourself in situations where consent is a little more
complicated, though, because, like, it's pretty common for consent not to be
considered by voyeurist or exhibitionist like scenes.
Yeah, It's not a form of consent.
And I think when we're reading these stories, and I saw your comments on this,
at least it was the first time I'd really thought about that voyeuristic consent,
just because it's not something that people are taught and it's not something
that people really are forced to consider in their daily life,
like most sexual activities behind closed doors.
And we focus on consent between one person and another within that activity.
Yeah, there's a whole other world outside of
that, which we're we're you're coming back to
that other world again.
It's like, where's my invitation is I think the
subtext.
Where's the wheresthedomain. com dot AU for that?
But I do think that that was navigated well in this story.
Like to be very clear, everybody in this story is clearly happy
with what's going on.
So that was not an issue here.
That was something I actually really liked about it because it's sort of like
this acknowledged ethos of the community that you go outside to your outdoor
shower when you want to participate in that like group exhibitionist and
voyeurist behaviour.
And there is AI don't know if people who are not ***** know this,
but there's a thing called Fetlife, which is essentially like Facebook for
***** people.
Most people have a thing up there saying like, if you're doing a research paper,
you're not welcome here.
But if you're just curious, you absolutely are welcome.
You're welcome to join and you're welcome to ask questions and people put up
photographs of stuff.
And so it like the, if you want to learn more,
Fetlife is a great place to to do that.
Fascinating.
His fingers are touching right now.
He wants to run over to the computer.
No, for look, just more curious than anything.
It's a whole.
It's a world that I haven't been exposed to, so to speak.
And hey, the jar.
Where's your dog?
Yeah, I've got a dollar right here.
So at least was there anything else you wanted to share?
Any other thoughts about this story?
Yeah, so I, I made a lot of critique here, but I loved this story.
I think I even did a shout out about it because I loved it so much.
So it's one of those that stuck with me and I was really excited that there was a
bare devil on it, and then even more excited that I got to
come and talk about it because it's full of all of these really terrific moments.
There's a moment where Cooper comes over and then he just kind of is like,
I'm around and then he leaves and she's like he slips back into the house.
Like a man who understands the art of good timing.
And like the layers of that moment made me so happy.
The layers of meaning in that were just beautiful to me.
So there's tonnes.
There's tonnes to love here.
I don't want to be leaving the impression that I didn't.
And honestly, just about everything to do with the kink
I loved.
Yeah, it was definitely a fun and eye opening.
We keep saying category to read this story was there probably weren't a lot of
this kind of voyeurism and exhibitionism.
There were a few, but like not a lot.
And it was probably like the stand out in that sense.
And yeah, we're we're excited to publish this story
as well.
So this will be featuring in one of our flesh fiction volumes.
Well, thank you so much for joining us again,
Elise.
And no doubt it won't be the last time.
Always a joy.
So thanks again, Elise.
That was a lovely chat.
We talked a lot about the themes in that chat and kind of the emotional experience.
But I think Jenny's also interested to know a bit more about the writing as well,
like the the nuts and bolts of the storytelling.
And Jenny sent to say voicemail as well.
So we'll play that now.
Hi Amanda and Ed, it's Jenny E and I'm really excited and
also nervous to be a bare devil.
This is my first time writing erotica so I really leaned into my research which
said that I should have the plot revolve around the sex scenes,
not the other way around.
But in doing that I worry that maybe the conflict and tension are too subtle,
so I'd love your take on that.
Another thing I know I struggle with because my beta readers tell me so,
is that I don't trust my audience.
But I don't really recognise when I'm over explaining,
so I'd love help spotting where I could use more subtext.
And lastly, I already know I'm going to cringe when
you read my time stamp scene breaks out loud.
So any tips on moving time forward in a last sort of clunky way?
You know less now it's two days later at midnight would be amazing.
Finally, just a big thanks for the flash fiction
prize opportunity.
Through my writing, I try to normalise sex for women over 40.
You know, I do this because too often I feel like
we're overlooked or we're flattened into the Mrs.
Robinson trope.
And I want to show that women over 40 like sex and gas.
Maybe they masturbate, and that's very normal.
And, you know, they have the right to claim what makes
them feel sexy, whatever that means, you know,
without feeling embarrassed or like they need to give an explanation.
And I hope this story accomplishes that.
I'll be listening to your podcast with my girlfriends and a bunch of wine.
So don't feel guilty about roasting me.
I have my girls to support me.
Cheers.
So thank you, Jenny, for your questions and some great
questions there.
Yeah, we'll get into some of the specifics as
we go through the story, but maybe to address some of those more
general questions, I find the first one fascinating around
do you prioritise the sex or the plot?
Do you have thoughts about that, Amanda?
I do, and I think my thoughts stem from reading
so many of these stories.
And I would say the stories that I guess rose to the top in this competition are
probably ones that prioritise the storytelling over the sex.
You know, there were stories that weren't
particularly ******.
If we talk about, you know, we have mentioned this before,
like they're not getting you off, They're not turning you on.
They're just great stories involving or incorporating sex.
But then there were also stories that were just really hot and,
and we loved them for that reason, but they still had to be well written and
well constructed for it to rise to the top in a competition.
Like, and we're talking about a competition
setting, not like you're on your own in your
bedroom at home and you just want a story to get you off.
We're talking about a writing competition.
So it's it's kind of like a different audience.
So I think there's a few different things at play there.
I mean, I would say I always love storytelling
and I don't think the two have to.
It's not like you have to choose one or the other.
I think you can have both.
It's definitely not a A1 or the other situation.
I think you need both really to make it work.
What I think that Jenny's done really well here is keep the sex throughout the
story, And I think I may have commented on this
in one of our flesh fiction episodes, is that the stories that were worked
especially well for me were the ones that maintained that voice and that mood all
the way through.
Like it wasn't set up sex scene, Denu mall situation, right?
You get into it straight into like that that sexual mindset and it builds and it
develops, but you're always kind of in that
headspace.
This story does that really well.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think this is probably a prime example of that,
where those two things are balanced.
And, you know, you could always have more story.
You could always do more on everything.
And we will get into our critiques of like,
what more you could do and the opportunities here.
But I did think there was a really nice balance of what was sexy and a turn on
and then what was like compelling and emotionally resonant and interesting and
engaging, all those aspects of storytelling.
And I think this is a great example.
And I mean, that's why it's going to be published,
right?
You're going to publish this one.
And I think it's a beautiful story in many ways.
And it's also really hot.
So really, I think you ticked both boxes there.
Ticking both boxes.
Wow.
Yes, yeah.
One thing I'll add as well, because Jenny mentioned about the
timestamps, and I think this is something that
distracts me.
When we talk about flash fiction competitions, especially 500 words,
having kind of split scenes in 500 words, I feel as a distraction and an
opportunity to consolidate and to streamline.
Often in this story, I felt that didn't distract me at all.
And I actually really liked that about this story,
that it had that kind of lingering quality of just like there's a lot of
space around what was happening, like it was just snippets.
It also kind of put you in the mood of this main character obviously living her
life in this community.
And this is just like this brief moment of excitement that happens in the evening,
right?
And the rest of the time, she's probably dealing with whatever
normal stuff that she has to deal with and on top of that, her grief.
But what we get are those moments of excitement and knowing that they are so
spread apart like 2 days later, this other little moment,
and two days later, this other little moment, it's like this.
It's a bit of a tease and I think that works really well in this context.
And I can't think of a better way of doing that right,
apart from just a simple timestamp 2 days later.
For me, that was fairly seamless.
Yeah, I actually wanted to say that too.
Like I think like you say, we talk about just have a single scene.
I mean, that's in a 500 word story.
I wouldn't necessarily say a 1500 word story needs to be a single scene.
You've got all that extra room.
But I actually thought this is a perfect example of how to do that well.
So I don't know if you might be surprised to hear that, Jenny,
you've you're sort of saying it was clunky.
I disagree.
Like, I think you handled it very well.
And and I guess for those who are, I guess less experienced with it,
maybe one way of thinking about it is if you were telling your best friend this
story about this hot guy who moved in next door,
what are you keeping in and what are you leaving out?
Right?
You're just keeping in the highlights.
You're just saying.
And then two nights later he was like, blah, right?
You're not saying in any way.
I went to the shops and I did my groceries and time passed and, you know,
I had to sleep.
No, ditch that and just skip to the to the
next bit.
And when we're having a conversation, we don't care.
We're not wondering what happened in those two days.
We don't care.
We're just like, Yep, what next?
And I think stories like this that span these time jumps,
much as we might advise against them in a 500 word story, most of the time,
not all the time, but when they do work is when we're
keeping this thread of the story that's being told.
So in this case, the thread and the theme is this outdoor
shower stuff and this relationship that's building with this neighbour.
We don't need anything else.
But as you say, it's important to show that passage of
time because it wouldn't have that same emotional resonance if he just turned up.
And it's like, hey, let's **** OK, let's, let's do it.
And I think that that was maybe a shortcoming of some of the other stories
we talked about where there was no build up, there was no climax.
Everyone's just into it from the start.
And while that might be a really great experience in real life,
it makes for a less satisfying story.
And so I think that conflict, the tension, the him kind of being prepared to walk
away and come back and wait a couple of nights and all of that leads to this
extra punch at the end when she finally gets what she wants.
Yeah.
And I think it's a real challenge as well that Jenny has executed really well is
being able to sit in that emotional complexity of that character that the
grief they're they're dealing with all of the inflicting emotions that they're
dealing with in terms of like, do I want to let go of this previous
partner?
Do I want to say yes to this thing that's coming towards me looming?
Exactly.
While keeping it sexy and while keeping it embedded in that emotion,
because I think that is important for an ****** story as well,
is not getting too deep into the sad stuff.
You know, it is possible.
It does change the tone of the story.
And we did have some category winners that were very sad and kind of were in
that emotion.
But I think if you do do want to keep it a turn on kind of thing,
then you do want to sit with that emotion a little bit more than you do those
negative emotions.
Yeah, no, I agree.
And you know, you can have that push and pull and
that's where the conflict comes in.
But we don't want it to be the overriding feeling.
We don't want readers to be sad as they're reading about this steamy shower
scene.
We want readers to feel that relief that she's feeling and that kind of like
letting go and, and all of that.
That's the emotion that we're going for.
And I think that's what this story does build towards.
We've got that tension.
We've got that feeling of her being constrained, as Elise pointed out as well.
And then we build to this point where she lets it go.
And that's the whole point of this story.
And I think that was a powerful aspect of this story,
that emotional release on top of what was also just a really hot scene.
Yeah, I think it's a really compelling premise
as well, because as I've mentioned several times,
I think in the discussion with Lisa and earlier, as a premise,
I found this really interesting.
And then on top of that, you've layered an actual character,
actual conflict and all of that kind of thing.
So all of those things are really working for you there.
So before we get into a little bit more detail about the story,
just to address the theme response here and the theme, of course,
making the unsexy irresistible.
So I guess the unsexy thing in this story was probably grief.
It's interesting that you say that, okay, because we had to guess.
Jenny didn't put an explanation in the brief explanation field.
And so Elise had guessed like you had, that it was the grief over the death of a
spouse that was the unsexy thing.
I came in later and I was like, I'm not sure if that's it.
Maybe it's this home owners association thing because I know that's a big,
it's not here in Australia, but we're very familiar with the home
owners association issues that you might have.
We have strata issues here in Australia and very similar.
But yeah, like we were guessing.
And in fact, Jenny clarified subsequently, you know,
once all everything was revealed, that in fact her inspiration was that it
was outdoor showers.
Ohh, really?
That were the unsexy thing.
And look, speaking as an Australian, I'm not sure I find outdoor showers
unsexy.
Do you think it's a climate thing?
Maybe it's a climate thing.
It's like they're quite worse.
On my honeymoon I went to Thailand where they have outdoor showers and I have a
pretty sexy place anyway, and there was this whole community of
outdoor showers there.
It was really fascinating.
But yeah, I don't know that I would call an outdoor
shower particularly unsexy where we live in on the coast.
Yeah, they're a thing that you have you rinse
off after the beach and yeah, I'm not like looking out the window with
my binoculars.
Yeah, them.
But it's.
Yeah, it's interesting that Jenny would be
inspired by that.
Yeah.
Look, I, I'm agnostic to that, but there, you know, there's a couple of odd things,
as you mentioned, the HOA also in title and the grief.
So certainly there were things in here that are unsexy.
Whatever your thoughts are about outdoor showers.
So the title of the story is Voyeurism and Exhibitionism.
HOA approved.
Do you have any thoughts?
I do.
I would say a tick in the pro column is that it was very memorable,
the voyeurism and exhibitionism core theme.
So to have that in the titles, like Yep, I remember that story straight away.
I would say the challenge for me is that the tone isn't right.
I feel like it's a little comedic, almost like this whole HOA thing,
like we know that that's ripe with drama.
And I'm not sure that that tone is where the story went.
And so I would challenge the title.
I would say I think although it was memorable,
it doesn't emotionally or tonally fit the story that follows.
But nevertheless, it was memorable and and allowed us to,
I guess, recall the story in our minds, which is a a big tick, really.
All right, so let's move on to the story.
Look, with these bare devils, we're not going to go through line by
line because there are many more lines than what we normally have, but we will,
I guess, maybe call out some highlights.
So we want to talk about the opening.
So the opening line, unmistakable moans and the rhythmic
splashing of water on skin fills the air.
From my second floor balcony, I lean into the darkness.
I scanning neighbouring backyards, searching for the source of pleasure
spilling shamelessly into the night.
I do love the idea of that pleasure spilling shamelessly into the night.
It's a great image.
I think that the opening paragraphs together,
all of them do a great job of putting us right in the context.
Like we talk about dropping into the scene as the story begins.
And I think this story does that very well.
It's clear we know what we're looking at.
And it sets the tone as well, the sexy tone that continues throughout
the story.
Yeah, We're not caught up in back story here.
We're right in the moment, which is great.
And another thing worth pointing out is also this, the sensory experience there,
like we're talking about sounds, we're talking about the sights.
And you get that sense almost of the time and even the season, like I,
I was sort of in there in the season as well with this,
even though it's not actually mentioned, just this idea of seaside, you know,
we kind of got that cool summer evening vibe to it.
And also this idea of wetness as well, which is all the way through.
We're in showers, we're showering every night and that's
the focus.
So straight away in the first line, like we're wet basically,
to put it one way, Let's go.
So yeah, I would say it's actually a great set up
and a little bit voicy as well.
We're starting to get this characters of voice in there, which I like.
One challenge I would say is maybe, and, and this is probably something I would
say throughout the story is that I think some of these sentences could,
could have been finessed a little bit.
So as an overarching comment, it's great.
We're heading in the right direction.
We're getting sensory detail.
It's clear we know what's happening.
But some of the sentences, the the cadence of them or just some of
the word choices didn't quite land in as satisfying a way as they might have.
And I'll use the first line as an example.
So we've got unmistakable moans and the rhythmic splashing of water on skin fills
the air.
Now we've got fills, but it's actually plural items.
So it should really be unmistakable moans and the rhythmic splash splashing of
water on skin fill the air.
And I know I'm that's a tiny little thing, but it's also your first sentence.
And so I do think some of that finesse in terms of like word choice and just
getting it right, getting right down to the exact word that
you're looking for.
And I think some of these sentences are either maybe a little bit over long or
sort of the words could have been reorganised to just create that smooth
reading experience.
I think you want to avoid tripping readers up at any point.
I don't want to belabour that.
I think that's something, if you read it out loud to yourself,
you could pick up things that just didn't quite ring right in your ear,
or if you share it with friends who are good at picking up on the little detail.
But I'm talking little detail here.
Not like big issues, just kind of like that final little
Polish that would go on the story.
Are you like me when you write these stories?
Because I remember when I was revising my flesh fiction story,
I would read these paragraphs over and over and over and over and over and over
and over so many times and tweak word after word after word.
And I'm never sure if like, am I, am I fixing it or am I sucking all of the
energy out of the story?
I think that's a common problem for people who get stuck into editing.
You can go too far.
You absolutely can go too far.
And as the author, you don't know when it's too far because
you've still got the old tone in your head.
You're not coming at it for the first time missing all of that.
It's all still lingering, so I think the only answer to that is a
good beta reader.
If you've got someone who can pick up that **** for you,
that is so valuable because it's almost impossible to do it yourself.
I will say reading it out loud to yourself is one way to pick it up.
Another way to pick up little details if you've looked at a story way too many
times is to change the font.
Change the font, it makes sense, like your brain picks it up for the first
time.
So that's a good way to pick up errors if you're just working solo.
Just to give another couple of examples about that finessing thing here.
So we have a couple of paragraphs down.
Small patches of grass are typically only occupied by mud filled outdoor showers,
built less for modesty and more for the desire not to trek sand into luxury beach
homes.
Now to me, all the sentiment there is great,
but it's a bit of a mouthful of a sentence and when you're reading that
it's just sort of a lot to take in at once.
A good rule of thumb is to sort of top out at about 25 words in a sentence.
And that's not like a a rule, you can absolutely do more than that.
But in terms of clarity and flow for the reader,
these longer sentences can sometimes trip you up.
And I think at all times you want people to just be flowing with the reading.
So that was a sentence I thought could have maybe been maybe split up or just
reorganised so that the words flowed.
And then the following paragraph has another really long sentence.
So we have.
But this summer, without any obvious coordination,
just after midnight, all visible from my back porch,
a not so secret community of exhibitionists uses their showers for a
very different purpose, each one hoping neighbours are watching
and wanting.
Now, when you read that for the first time,
your brain's ready to finish that sentence a little bit sooner.
It's just a little bit tricky for people to embrace all of that on the first read
again and just say break it up.
Yeah, look, I don't necessarily have a problem with
long sentences.
It's a question of readability, really, isn't it?
Like they do take a little bit of concentration to kind of tease apart and
sometimes the order in which the items are presented,
like we're talking about small patches of grass,
and then we kind of move into other ideas.
So it's just where you're taking the reader and where you're making a reader
look at every moment in time.
I don't necessarily think it's a major issue though,
because it's also part of voice and part of the tone for story.
So you can definitely use longer sentences to achieve a certain style.
I totally agree.
You absolutely need to be able to make stylistic choices like that.
I'm just not sure in this case that that's a stylistic choice that's adding
value in my mind.
You're saying give that extra character voice, voice.
I'm not sure these sentences are doing that.
I don't think they're contributing to voice.
I think they are potentially tripping a reader up.
But look, again, you said it's not a, it's not a big thing.
It's not, I'm talking finesse.
I'm talking final Polish.
So these things aren't things that would make me say, oh,
I don't like this story by any means, but it might be something that stands
between you and that next level.
You know, we're talking high level like that this
story was cut from the long list.
Like, maybe it is little things like that that
stand in the way.
Yeah.
But what I do love about this opening sequence is it does feel quite efficient,
right?
If we if we look through paragraph by paragraph,
each paragraph does have a clear express purpose.
There's no, there's not much fluff in terms of what's
being stated here.
Where setting the scene, we're introducing our main character,
we're giving a little bit of back story and I do like in that second paragraph we
get straight into the voyeurism.
What does that mean for the character?
And straight away I think in those words that's I'm not proud of my regular
voyeurism.
I'm not embarrassed either.
Shame requires the energy of caring.
We find out about her very quickly and then we move on, right.
But the little bit we find out about her is the most important information.
The fact that, like, she's a relatively young widow,
she feels like she's too fragile to ****.
And, you know, and I think that's all we really need to
kind of put ourselves in her mind for the rest of the story.
Absolutely.
I think it's a great bit of setup.
And also we get very shortly after this is five paragraphs in.
Well, hello, new neighbour.
And that's the moment that we really kind of introduce what is the plot element
that will play out in the rest of the story.
That's the dramatic question, right?
Like, yeah, ****.
And that's great.
Like getting that up front there, you could possibly tighten some of that
opening.
I think it's, if you will, how tight.
But you know, it's pretty good.
It's doing its job there.
It's all on the first page in the version we've printed here.
It's all happening.
So I think that's great.
Jenny raised a point in her earlier questions which was around her beta
readers giving her some feedback to say maybe she's not trusting her reader
enough and maybe being a little bit too explicit with some of this stuff.
Not explicit in a sexy sense, but explicit in a over explaining sense
perhaps.
And I guess in response to that, I just wanted to raise this sentence here,
which is the ocean breeze parts my white silk robe exposing my unkempt pubic hair
that hasn't seen a man up close since Jacob's boating accident 3 years ago.
And again, that's another sentence I would say
that's maybe quite a bit and might need a little bit of finesse.
But also if we're looking at at an editing point,
I don't know that we need to mention Jacob's boating accident.
It feels like a bit of a non sequitur, even though it's highly relevant,
It's also not it's not really relevant how no died and we already know we
already know he has died.
And so I feel like that extra detail kind of took me out of that a little bit.
I don't mind the detail of the it's more than it's more than moment.
I think the point of this paragraph is to emphasise that it's been a while for our
protagonist here, which it does.
But if we're taking it from a first person perspective,
that's not necessarily the thought process that I would imagine that she's
going through, you know, opening her robe because she's feeling
turned on and then touching her pubic hair and then being remembering about the
boating accident.
Look, it's possible and I think to some extent,
and like you are, we are playing into that conflict here of
what she's thinking about, what she wants versus what she's stuck in
emotionally.
But just from a reading perspective, I would say it's just a, like I said,
a little bit of a non sequitur and it kind of just a didn't feel comfortable.
And I would say all you need to change it to is hasn't seen a man up close since
Jacob and that's enough.
And look, we're talking about minor details here,
but Jenny did ask about am I trusting my audience?
Not trusting my audience.
And I think maybe that was a little bit too much spoon feeding.
We don't need that information.
And look, in this opening, I think it's OK to be more direct in the
opening.
And sometimes I would encourage it.
We talk a lot about don't leave the mystery.
You know, we don't want a mystery in a story.
We need to be able to connect with the characters right up front.
Yeah.
Not, never a mystery, but not a mystery about what's happening.
It's very clear what's happening.
And I think that's appropriate for this stage of the story.
But I did think that there were sometimes where there was a bit of telling going on
in the story that could have been replaced by more dramatisation.
So we'll talk about those as well.
But that was just one example early on, I guess that that stood out to me.
Another sort of overarching point I wanted to make,
and this is something that's been coming up for me as I've been editing some of
the stories for our collection, is this idea,
and we've talked about it before, of never naming an emotion.
So that's a that's a subset of show don't tell, I guess.
And I think there were sometimes throughout the story where perhaps the
emotions were just stated instead of being shown.
I'll just throw a couple of examples out there.
We've got a man presses a woman against the shower wall and kisses her with a
desperate tenderness.
I don't necessarily think that's a problem,
but I guess the gold standard is show us the kiss.
What does he do that is desperate and tender at the same time?
Describe the kiss without telling us that the conclusion that we're supposed to
reach about that action.
Another example, Half mortified, half delighted.
I say you are very forward.
I would potentially suggest replacing that with an action beat.
What's she doing in that moment?
She's half mortified, half delighted.
What's her body language or what action is she taking in that moment?
We've got?
I sit down, clambering for comfort.
What does that look like?
How is she sitting down?
Is she gripping the armrest?
You know, and this might be, Jenny, those opportunities where your beta
readers are saying trust the reader.
It's like trust the reader to know that when she grips the armrest of her chair
and lowers herself down that what she's doing is searching for comfort there,
you know?
And I think it bears repeating.
We do talk about this rule quite often.
Don't name an emotion.
And sometimes these rules can feel arbitrary, but they're not.
And they're grounded in, I guess, psychology because when we as people
observe other people, we can see what they're feeling in the
way that they act.
We can see when someone's nervous.
We can see when someone's angry.
That's just like a intuition that we build up over years of interacting with
people.
And so when we read that in a story and we we hear about how a character is
behaving, we naturally want to put those things
together and come to our own conclusions about what that might mean.
And when we're told what they're feeling, it can kind of feel like something's been
taken away from us as readers.
And you know, that intuition doesn't come naturally for
everyone, but I think that's something always to
strive for.
I think in your first draught, when you go back and you look,
any time I've named an emotion, it's an opportunity to give us body
language, dialogue or action instead.
And it's not always necessary.
You know, there'll be times when it's enough to
just say what the feeling was and we move on.
And because we it's not important.
Enough emotion for us to fully dramatise out and we just want to skip over it and
sort of be clear.
But there's other times and there's certainly times in a piece of ******
fiction where it's the action, dialogue and body language that should be
doing the talking and not the narrator.
So just an opportunity there.
I didn't find it to be particularly distracting in the story, I have to say.
But going over it with a fine tooth comb with an editor's mindset,
I would be saying opportunity, opportunity,
opportunity to just level that up a little bit.
And similarly, I think sometimes when we summarise
action, we can miss that opportunity to really
give the reader the picture as well.
And again, look, we can't show everything.
I will never leave, you know, we'll run out of words pretty quick.
But an example is the moment where he shrugs and says,
it's only fair considering you looked first.
That's a pretty full on moment.
And it just says I nearly choke.
And now that's fine.
That's a summary of the action.
But what you could also do is show that moment where she nearly chokes.
Is she sipping her wine?
Does she nearly spit it out?
Like, what does I nearly choke actually look
like?
Like that's a that's a broad summary that could mean a lot of things.
And, you know, if we're watching a movie, what exactly does that look like?
Sometimes you're going to have to skip over that stuff just for word count.
But you've mentioned it.
So clearly it's important that she's had that reaction,
and therefore it might be important to fully show it.
Yeah.
I feel like this is a general comment about writing is that it is
counterintuitively maybe a visual medium.
Because what you're always doing is painting a picture,
almost creating a movie in the mind of the reader.
And whenever you have something that is a little bit ambiguous that the reader can
interpret in more than one way, like sometimes you want them to be able
to do that or sometimes you want them to be able to to think about a specific
thing happening and visualise that in the same way as you want to.
So with something like I nearly choke, there are multiple ways you can imagine
that happening.
Like they just kind of choke off to the side or maybe they spray their drink out
all over the place.
And all of those have different connotations for the scene.
And you can tell your reader make a choice.
How do you want this to play out?
How do you think that might look?
And whatever they choose might have implications for the next line.
And what you risk is the next line doesn't gel with what they've imagined to
happen.
So that's something to be conscious of that if you are trying to go from one
beat to the next beat to the next beat and you have an ambiguous line,
it may not lead some readers directly to that Yeah.
And I mean, it doesn't have to be a lot more words.
I'm not saying like, let's now dwell in this moment of her
nearly choking.
Like it can just be the same number of words or just a couple more where she's
like, my wine catches in my throat.
Yeah.
And it sprays like, I don't know, like it's it's.
But that's now a visual, right?
That's a specific visual.
And I think that's all I'm saying.
Like, I don't need to linger there.
We just, it's like, well, what exactly was that moment is what I'm
suggesting there.
What do you think about this dialogue in general in the story?
Look, I'll say I found it hard to read when I
was reading the story aloud.
And I don't know if that's just me because I'm awkward, but yeah,
I'm not sure why.
What do you think?
What's what's your feeling?
Sometimes we give the critique for dialogue that it doesn't really go
anywhere or it's not really for a purpose.
I felt this dialogue was for a purpose and it was fairly natural.
There wasn't a whole lot of just filler dialogue.
And some of these phrases are very laden with meaning and emotion.
Like, so you're just stood there watching, you know, it's quite heavy.
Yeah, exactly.
There's a lot in there.
And because I watched you read the story, like, yeah, some of these,
you're not quite sure how how to read them or what the tone is.
That's difficult to do sometimes.
But I thought it was quite good dialogue from that perspective.
It was pushing towards, I guess a goal and every line seemed to
have that in mind.
Well, and and look, maybe it's a case of maybe removing some
of that stage direction in the dialogue and just letting it speak for itself to
some extent.
So we have this half mortified, half delighted.
I say you are very forward.
Could she not just say you are very forward, You know, you're very forward.
He's like, I like the show too.
You don't need to give us the the build up.
Right.
And also that he replies softly.
I've learned not to waste time like that can really be cut down.
Yeah, just I've learned not to waste time.
That line speaks for itself.
So yeah, maybe that's an element there, Jenny, as well,
of trust your reader a little bit, letting them just experience that
dialogue.
And I think to some extent, readers will experience it slightly
differently, but all of those experiences will be
satisfying.
Like when I read that, that'll be laden with people I know and
experiences I've had and people I've talked to and and those voices will be
coming through when I'm reading this.
And that might be slightly different to the way you read it, Ed.
And you hear, maybe I hear him as more confident and
you hear him as more timid or whatever it might be.
But that's my experience now.
I get to have that of this story and, and you don't necessarily need to hold my
hand through that.
We're just watching like these two people interact and,
and it's like a satisfying experience in itself.
We don't need to sort of be told how we're supposed to feel about what they're
saying.
And similarly, you know, at the end of this section,
this moment where it says I sit quietly, my heart unexpectedly light to me,
that's very telling.
You're telling us how we're supposed to feel about this moment.
You could leave us with, like, a man who understands the art of good
timing.
That in itself tells us a lot.
You know, she's not ready to go any further than
that, but she's still thinking of him in that
way.
And then we cut to the next scene.
Yeah.
So in this next scene, we get this, this moment where she becomes the
exhibitionist.
So, wiggling my toes on the Dewey grass, I stare at the shower head hanging
ominously untouched since the summer of Jacob's death.
Cobwebs thicker than the ones on my vagina hover in the corner.
And that's a fun line, but such a drop dead Fred moment.
Yeah, I'll also say it is a bit of a change in
tone for me.
Like, it stood out as just like, a bit of a funny image in the middle of,
I guess, what was not a funny moment.
She's kind of thinking about the fact that she hasn't, you know,
touched this shower since that time, and she's thinking about doing it,
but we're kind of stuck on the cobwebs in the vagina in that moment.
So no, I think you're right there.
If you did wanna keep it and you're keeping that,
I guess it's an essence of character voice to some extent,
if they're still having a laugh in this moment.
So that's an option.
I tend to agree with you that maybe it's something that even though it's funny,
might not be quite fitting of the tone.
But if you were going to keep a little tip that, I don't know where I read it,
but I love this tip and I think about it constantly when it comes to comedy.
But is to save the punchline to the last bit of the sentence,
the end of the sentence.
So we have cobwebs thicker than the ones on my vagina hover in the corner.
In the corner is the end of that sentence.
And that's not the funny bit you would say.
There's cobwebs in the corner thicker than the ones on my vagina.
And that's where you end that sentence.
I mean, that's by the by.
Because I'm not sure that we're trying to be, like, as comedic here.
But just a little hot tip I picked up somewhere along the way.
I do think it helps the comedy land.
Or maybe you can rephrase that as something a little bit more subtle,
like observing the cobwebs and then reflecting somehow on the vagina without
explicitly calling it out in a way that the reader can understand.
Like, there's that option as well.
Yeah, True.
And as we're coming up to this climactic moment here,
we are getting a little bit more of that naming of emotion kind of stuff.
And like there's some very obvious moments where that happens.
Timidity, sadness, confidence and excitement swell like
static.
I think when you are trying to build empathy on the part of your reader,
it is difficult for a reader to really empathise with three separate emotions
swirling around like that.
So I mean, not to harp on this because we've already
talked about naming an emotion, but I guess that's the danger.
When you name a complex emotion, it's hard to be empathetic to that when
it is quite abstract.
You're better off focusing in on that action and just let them connect with the
scene directly rather than kind of through your authorial layer of telling
them how that character's feeling and look.
This is all very interesting.
You know, I love talking about writing, but I also want to talk about a couple of
little like more ****** fiction specific things.
So one, and again, this sort of comes from my experience now
of editing some of these stories for the collection.
We've got this line here.
My body quivers from head to toe.
Now this is an important piece of action.
You know, we're building towards a climax here,
but I would say, aha, very funny.
I would say watch out for that kind of idiomatic phrasing when we're talking
about something that is like the climax of the story.
We're leaning now on a phrase we've heard 1000 times before from head to toe.
And that feels like a summary.
It doesn't feel special and inviting and enticing and, and like, compelling.
Yeah.
It just feels like an explanation.
I agree.
And and also that that kind of phrasing is something that you would see when you
are trying to avoid explicit detail.
And the previous paragraph has a fair amount of explicit detail.
There's like finger down to my clip tracing tight circles ever so slowly go
on.
So there is there is explicitness there.
So it's not like Jenny's shying away from talking about it.
So I think there is an opportunity to escalate.
And if that situation is escalating and we're getting to that moment,
then describe that moment in more explicit terms as well.
And it's hard because I think this is the part and Jenny's saying this is the first
time she's done this.
We don't normally necessarily talk like that or even think like that.
Like, you might have that moment, but you're not necessarily analysing it.
And like, what is happening in my body?
This moment is happening.
But as a writer, that's what you've got to do.
You've got to reflect back and go, what physical thing is happening in that
moment?
Like what?
What's happening in my body?
What does that feel like?
Not just quivers from head to toe, but like, specifically.
And I think as a reader, that is what is exciting,
is to have that experience mirrored back in a way that you haven't thought about
it.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I mean, that's the case for all writing.
But I think all the more important here, this sensory experience of what it's like
to have an orgasm is like, that's what people came here for.
And, and so I think it pays to think a little
bit more deeply about that and deliver that because that's,
that's a big part of the package.
And we move on two nights later, we've got some lovely sensory detail
again, that's your secret, the sensory detail.
What does it smell like?
What does it sound like?
You know, what does it taste like?
Like what it, what are all the senses that are
happening in this moment?
Like not all at once when we don't want to overdo it,
but what is 1 specific little tiny detail that encapsulates that feeling?
I think that's the kind of thing to strive for.
So coming up, there's one little line that as we were
reading, as Amanda was reading the story, we wanted to kind of come back to and
talk about, and that was consumed by a single thought.
I **** my **** purposely imagining someone who isn't Jacob.
So what are your thoughts about this line, Amanda?
I will say **** my **** was a bit of a jackknife kind of moment for me when I
was reading the story.
It's not a descriptor I would ever use.
Like, it just didn't feel quite right to me.
And so I found it very distracting.
Yeah.
What about you?
It's a moment that made me think, OK, so tonally, like,
the word **** has come up before in this story.
It's not like, new or anything.
And then the word **** is not new either.
I don't think we talk about ***** in the context of them being ******.
No.
And that's an interesting thought.
And that's what I'm saying.
It made me think about.
I remember you went you went somewhere very new in your mind palace.
No, I look, I remember listening to a podcast many
years ago, like a sex based podcast and it featured
like a lesbian and a gay man talking about sex.
And at one point the lesbian was talking about ******* another woman and the gay
man was like, that's not *******.
Like, that's not, that's not what let me show you.
And no, because we we have an idea that it's
******* means penetration.
Yeah.
And that's kind of baked into it, right?
And so when you talk about ******* a **** it's different.
And immediately we think that's not ******* jars, but it's also like,
but it is.
Yeah.
Also, yeah.
For me, that line reframed or helped make me
reconsider what that means and what my assumptions are about it.
So I thought that was interesting.
But I also think that's not necessarily what you want to be thinking in that
moment.
So maybe that's like you say, Jack and I for a little bit of an issue
because it does take you out of that moment.
I would call it jarring, definitely.
And you're free to describe things however you want.
But at the same time, if you're thinking about the reader's
experience, you have to think about that stuff and
how that's going to land.
And for me, it didn't land perhaps in the way it was
intended.
What I will say does emphasise is, and this is from my experience writing my
own flesh fiction story, thinking about how the voice might change
depending on the heightened level of enthusiasm of the protagonist.
So if the protagonist is kind of warming up or not really into it,
they might use certain words, but if they're really like close,
then they might be just like, So what that highlights to me is that in
that moment, that protagonist is really into it.
And that's what they're kind of thinking.
They're thinking in terms of like, **** my Clinton, not just more delicate,
yeah, kind of terms.
So no, you're right.
I mean, I think definitely like the aggression or
whatever you might with the intensity of the wording is,
is definitely what you're searching for there.
Another point that comes up for me.
And this is just an opportunity, right?
Like if I'm getting into the the weeds on it.
There's a moment further down where she's reading the note from Cooper that he's
he's left on the back table, which is great, by the way,
Love that love that he just comes, leaves a note and walks away like this is
all great yearning loveth.
But in the in his note, he says, come join me, not for a new beginning,
but for a moment in time with an open ending.
And that's really great.
And what I would say is that's an opportunity to feed that line back into
their dialogue as if he's referencing something they've already talked about.
Because just in the previous scene, it ends with her saying he holds my arm,
letting me know he's ready for more.
I'm not.
And I think we could have used that line about a new beginning there.
And so he's correcting that moment where maybe he suggested a new beginning and
she reacted.
And this is the kind of moment that I think does need to be dramatised right?
Where he holds my arm, letting me know he's ready for more.
I'm not.
Show me how she's not like, don't tell me I'm not, show me that.
Have him say something about a new beginning.
Have her react negatively.
That's a huge moment of conflict that deserves to be played out.
That would be satisfying.
You know, for Rita, like we're Oh no, what's happened now?
Like he, we thought they were going to get
together and now right near the end, like it's all falling away because he
said new beginning and she wasn't ready for that.
Like that deserves all of that dramatisation.
And then for him to in his note, reference back to that and sort of be
like, not for a new beginning, just for a moment in time with an open
ending that would land even harder, I feel.
So that's just an opportunity because I do love that note and I love what it's
says.
It's just like, let's weave it back in and make it land
even harder.
Just as an overarching comment again, back to the sexy stuff, right?
And I mean, this would apply in a non sexy story as
well.
But, and you've said this many times, Ed, that things should be building towards a
climax, not sort of lingering in that same space.
And I do think there were moments where we were sort of lingering maybe a little
too long in that same emotional experience.
And it would have been nice to sort of build, build, build,
have it all come crashing down in that moment and then resolve it in the end and
then come back harder for that climax kind of thing.
So that would be an opportunity as well.
Yeah.
Look, and I feel, let's move on to the ending and talk
about that.
And we did speak a little bit about that with Elise.
And I guess just on that point you made about the climax,
I feel like a a part of this, a big part of this is this whole
emotional state of mind that the protagonist is in.
And can she move beyond, I guess her grief to the point where she
can continue her life?
And we have this other character that comes into play and we spend a lot of
time, a lot of sexy time should be said
lingering on that.
And this whole will they won't they idea, but we don't get the pay off.
We don't get that climax.
We don't see them hook up.
And that's a choice, right?
And we do see her emotional pay off in the end.
Like we see that she's been able to move on in some way.
But we as readers of ****** fiction don't get that sexual pay off.
Yeah.
I mean, there's sexual moments all through the
story.
And it's like the earlier parts are, are hotter than the than the climax
itself.
And I would have loved to have seen I'm, I feel the same way.
Like I wanted more at that ending.
I wanted it to lead to that moment.
And it's, it's difficult.
It is a question mark because, you know, this story is really about the grief and
the letting go.
And you don't want to lose that emotional heart of this story.
And I don't think you need to lose it.
But I think that moment of letting go needs to be much more wrapped up in the
sensory experience of the mind blowing sex that they have after all this build
up.
And it's interesting because, again, in editing some of these stories,
what I was often looking for, we've got sex, but we didn't have emotion.
And in this story, we've got the emotion but not the sex
right at the end there.
And I think you need both.
Yeah, maybe maybe the way to think about it is
that the story needs the payoff and the sex needs a payoff,
and they have to kind of line up.
That's what I was finding in the stories.
It's like we need the character's emotional arc, whatever that might be,
and we also need the arc of the story, the sex, the plot, those two things.
Both need to climax at the same time, you know,
for it to be as satisfying as possible.
Like, quite sincerely, I think.
I think you can have one or the other if you want, but I think for a very,
very resonant piece of ****** fiction, you've got both.
And it's not easy to climax at the same time.
Oh, really?
Is it a challenge?
Is it, I mean, at the exact same time?
OK, I didn't say no comment anyway, so just on that as well.
And we did talk about this with Elise, but that moment at the end of it all
washing down the drain.
And I will be editing the story with Jenny.
And I think that's something that I'd like to look at is while I think it's
powerful to have this big moment of it all like changing like that,
that bit I love.
So we don't want to move remove that, but I think it needs to just shift into
something a little bit more different.
Not like it's all washed away, but that we've up somehow.
We're getting to a new place where a new place of comfort with something that's
been uncomfortable for some time.
So yeah, and I think that's all you can ask for
really.
When you say new place of comfort in that final sentence,
it's letting go of everything.
It's neat little bow.
And I don't think you can really expect that.
I think it's more just like we've moved to a new level, whatever that level is,
and it can just be a tiny moment, right?
Like just that tiny bit of relief.
She's been dealing with this back and forth and like, am I ready?
Am I not ready?
And it's just that moment of like, OK, I think I'm ready to start thinking about
this.
But I think it's also an opportunity because in a flash fiction story,
as you always say, the like the Domino's knocking over.
In a ****** fiction story, you have like at your fingertips,
so to speak, pay the method that's pretty good that
circled the rim, that one satisfied.
You have at your fingertips a ready made method for making that happen.
It's the sex, like that's how it happens.
And if you can have that sex scene and describe it and then the payoff comes as
a result of that.
Yeah, I think that's available to you.
Yeah.
And I think what's also great in this story, and which Elise mentioned as well,
is that we also have this thought of her now she's becoming the exhibitionist.
So that's happening at the same time too.
But that happens a little bit pre climax here.
She's got her own sort of climax that happens back there where she's being an
exhibitionist.
And then we have the moment with him and I feel like they kind of need to happen
together to be as satisfying as possible.
That exhibitionism of her like really letting go in every way kind of needs to
all happen at the same time.
Yeah.
Like maybe with her joining him in the shower session thing.
Yeah, I agree.
I agree with that because it's it's both tied in together.
But yeah, like, I feel like what we've been dwelling in
in this whole conversation.
Is like the detail, like we're actually, we've become invested in this character
now and we are looking at the nuance and the detail and,
and how we opportunities and all of that sort of stuff,
which is the sign of a great story for us to, to be that invested.
And this was a great story.
As we said it, it got cut.
It was so close to the long list and it was really ******* cute as well as being
hot.
It was really cute these moments between them and I loved it.
I really loved this story a lot.
And yeah, like, I'm really excited to publish it.
I think it is a great story.
Yeah.
I think it was great from the outset in terms of the the premise and getting us
into the character.
And I really love an ****** story that also has a strong emotional core that's
not just like, let's ****.
Yeah, as much as I love that as well.
I think of all the stories that we chose for the long list and the podium and the
winners.
If you go back and listen to the winners episode,
you'll you'll see that all of those stories had a really strong emotional
core.
And what this one also had is some great sex like it had.
I really enjoyed the sex scenes.
And I think what we miss and we both expressed it is at the end,
we want to see kind of those things come together and give us the climax that
we've been promised.
So.
And speaking as a woman over 40, Jenny, you mentioned that you want to normalise
sex for women over 40.
I think this story did a great job of that.
It was really hot.
And, you know, no ones questioning at any moment whether
she belongs in this scene or not.
And I think it was a really beautiful story in that sense.
And I'm a great fan of sex women over 40 as well.
So but thank you so much, Jenny, for your story.
And hopefully this has given you a little bit of insight.
It's it was a lot of fun for us to read and talking about it.
This was a new experience for both of us really talking about a a sexy story in
this level of detail.
So hopefully you got something out of it because we definitely did.
Oh, hi.
And we always say with our daredevils that it takes a lot of bravery and
perhaps masochism to sign up for a daredevil.
And I feel like that is amplified about 100 times for a bare devil.
Because we're not.
We're not talking about only your merits as a writer and your artistic merits,
but perhaps also some of your deepest desires.
And I don't know if this is, this is your deepest desires, Jenny,
we assume.
But this is the thing, right?
You put yourself out there, you'll make a connection with people out
there who will like you, you know, And I think that when you put out a piece
of ****** fiction, there will be readers for that who will
enjoy it.
I did enjoy this story.
I'm happy to say that.
So absolutely.
100 times braver.
And and I'm glad you got your girlfriends around you.
I hope they're all chasing you.
This is absolutely, absolutely a moment of celebration.
So thanks again, Jenny, and we hope that you're not left too
fragile to **** after after this bare devil beating.
But just before we go, we've asked our resident Dom to come in
and give you a little bit of a verbal spanking because we know really that's
what you came here for.
So take it away, Elise.
Jenny, you are a terrible tease.
Shame on you.
When you give me a funny title, I expect you to be silly and frivolous.
None of this moving, heartfelt art.
Go stand in the corner until I decide how to punish you.
So thank you, Elise, and we hope you're OK after that little
spanking, Jenny.
But we'll be back next week with our second Baredevil.
And until then, right on, right on.
We hope you enjoyed this special Daredevil episode of Not Quite Right.
If you have thoughts on the story, follow us on social media and join the
conversation.
And if you'd like to participate in the next round of the competition,
head over to ourwebsite@notquiteright.com.
That's WRITE something doesn't seem quite right.
What does it smell like?
What does it sound like?
You know, what does it taste like?
Like what are what are all the senses that are happening in this moment like
not all at once when we don't want to overdo it,
but what is 1 specific little tiny detail that encapsulates that feeling?
And I think that's the kind of thing to strive for.
Anyway.
Sounds good.
Like deliver that package if you want, you can go straight to the **** my ****.
Missed help?