WEBVTT

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Something doesn't seem quite right.

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Welcome to Not Quite Right.

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My name's Ed and I'm Amanda,
and we are back with another interview

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from Words on the Waves,
and this time we are speaking with Sam

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Elliott.

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And Sam is at Words on the Waves as part
of the Inked in Ash panel.

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And Sam shared with us his experience
writing his two novels, Haze and Deepfake.

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So here is our interview with Sam Elliott.

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We are here at Words on the Waves with
Sam Elliott.

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How are you, Sam?

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I'm so good, Ed,
Thank you so much for having me on the

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show.

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It's awesome to be here.

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And So what brings you here to Words on
the Waves?

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I am very fortunate.

e35d0789-d775-4ab9-95e2-ba09be4b140e-0
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I was invited to appear on Inked and Ash,
speaking with Jen Mills,

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Inga Simpson and George Kemp about their
works.

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So it's like just some absolute pleasure
and privilege to be here.

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I'll be talking about my novel Haze.

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Excellent.

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So what's that panel?

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It's crime writing.

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I think it's more talking about the
Australian landscape and what sort of

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compels us to to write about it,
particularly in some different sort of

a58a74e2-76aa-4cf1-8390-aabf46f3fef3-2
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depictions of that,
be it a disaster or I guess just

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essentially more broadly,
what draws us to writing about this,

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particularly with fires featuring
throughout several of our works.

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So and your,
your writing is set in Sydney,

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is that right?

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The second book is set in Sydney.

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The first one, Hayes,
is set in a fictional South Coast town

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heavily inspired by where I used to spend
my youth, which was Browley.

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So Browlette is the name of the fictional
South Coast town sort of around Batemans

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Bay Area.

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Yeah.

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And it was inspired by the 2019-2020 sort
of Black Summer fires that had threatened

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and consumed properties that had never
been threatened before, as well as,

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you know, loss of life, loss of property,
loss of livestock.

bc8cde69-9ae8-46a4-b9d2-54269bf101f5-0
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So it was something in which is an
unprecedented Bush fire scale and what

bc8cde69-9ae8-46a4-b9d2-54269bf101f5-1
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compelled me to pick up and start riding
Haste.

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Do you have your own personal experience
of that more as an observer,

aab84a28-54b7-4f7e-84b8-d4c12888a0f5-1
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or was your own property threatened at
that time?

b7157b7a-946e-44ef-bd52-a6a90cd23e1f-0
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I wasn't personally there.

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It wasn't my personal experience.

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It was more a case of my personal
experience was here's this place that I

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associated for these wonderful memories
of a childhood.

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And then that was kind of like this this
paradise that had never been threatened

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before, Amanda, by bushfires.

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And then during this 2019-2020.

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There was all these places that have
never been threatened before that were

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taken from that.

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So that was obviously hellish scenes that
we all saw.

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And that's sort of what compelled me to
to ride in that sort of capacity.

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Yeah.

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And that probably is something that is
quite Australian, you know,

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the droughts and definitely flooding
rains and the fires.

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And I think it's something that as a
nation we all sort of share,

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like our own personal history as
associated with these big natural events,

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I suppose.

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So there's something about it that brings
us together, I feel.

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I agree.

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I agree.

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I think that also,
it's one of those things that's that's

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ever worsening, Yeah.

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With climate change and stuff like that,
Like every year seemingly the preceding

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year,
it's worse than the preceding year in

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terms of unprecedented bushfires,
unprecedented flooding,

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like all these sort of things that
continue to happen and continue to get

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worse and is very Australian centric.

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Yeah.

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It's like something that's very inherent
to this this wonderful country of ours.

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And I think that does unify and unite
people in terms of this sense of I guess

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an Australian mateship and togetherness.

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But yeah,
I mean that's the most sort of hellish

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conditions that you can experience is
bushfires and and this sort of stuff.

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And these brave few people that do go out
predominantly volunteers to go and kind

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of contain this hellish like 100 foot
wall of fire with some buckets of sand

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and some water.

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So, yeah, it's very Australian,
Australian attitude in terms of the

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Australian,
in terms of the landscape and Australian

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in terms of the attitude of trying to to
go up against these sort of awesome

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forces and and hopefully prevail.

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So tell us a bit more about your book and
what the themes it explores.

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OK,
so Hayes is set during an unprecedented

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Bush fire season that's kind of besieged
this small South Coast town called

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Bralette.

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We're introduced to Constable Dalia
Turner,

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who is conducting a series of door knocks
on properties on the outskirts of town

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that supposed to have been evacuated a
day or so before.

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The last name on her list is her best
friends Callum and Xavier Vincent,

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and their son Jude Vincent.

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She arrives just before the fires close
in to find that her two best friends have

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been killed and their son is missing
right before the fire sort of consumes

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the house and she escapes in a way that I
won't tell you in support for readers.

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So then obviously the next day she wants
to conduct the search or contribute to

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the search,
given that it's her godson that is

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missing and she's not really allowed to
do that.

84b2a99d-8d1f-4c85-8b1f-a31ed07bf56b-0
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She's kind of appointed as a glorified
babysitter for a detective.

3dd76ffb-019d-43fd-ac83-b00bbaca695a-0
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That's a sign from another case that's
handed over to lead the investigation or

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search for Duke Vinson,
Detective Florence Fowler.

6219498c-1d46-45c4-bf3b-9746223bdc00-0
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And quickly they discovered that there's
seeming evidence that this is part of the

6219498c-1d46-45c4-bf3b-9746223bdc00-1
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ongoing war that's happening between the
two factions of Brow LED.

270a63a6-824d-4a21-9346-6b452fcc113e-0
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So there is on one side the town
industrialist sort of from a dynastic

270a63a6-824d-4a21-9346-6b452fcc113e-1
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family, Hunter Rochford,
and he is clashing with Fairchild Shaw,

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who is the matriarchal leader of a cult,
the People's Cleansing Light,

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that live on the outskirts of town in a
heavily fortified compound that Dahlia

270a63a6-824d-4a21-9346-6b452fcc113e-4
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used to be a part of and spend her
childhood in as well.

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Yes.

1a27600f-5791-4f47-8d90-e0d39e752129-0
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It's interesting.

72ffae2b-7333-48e8-9741-6cec7e08c202-0
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Some twists and turns about the sounds of
things.

3fefc8ca-2f37-4974-acf4-4735978d220d-0
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There is a few.

0c589ae9-d142-4095-8b41-eaaf446d6b24-0
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Yeah.

48f52081-1199-458f-be31-97091e0389ab-0
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Yeah.

89a893b8-7f44-4a54-80fb-3dfd9599e2cc-0
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And the the the fire makes a very
dramatic backdrop for all of that.

0bae6cb4-6217-425e-81a7-3ce087ced0b3-0
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Very much.

591357be-6db9-4cc3-89b5-74b51a4cbc1b-0
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Yeah.

fe2aa6b5-8270-44a4-a9c3-775237a746b0-0
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I mean,
that was like essentially a fire really

fe2aa6b5-8270-44a4-a9c3-775237a746b0-1
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had to be part of the,
like a character in itself as well

fe2aa6b5-8270-44a4-a9c3-775237a746b0-2
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because of that.

25b64002-cbb3-47ee-b9f0-881ec83f8e2c-0
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So yeah,
I guess sort of in the lead up to writing

25b64002-cbb3-47ee-b9f0-881ec83f8e2c-1
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it as well.

0cff95a5-1e00-447f-814b-808127dccf57-0
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It's kind of amazing because what we
talked about Amanda,

0cff95a5-1e00-447f-814b-808127dccf57-1
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in terms of the fire being so Australian,
it is such an Australian thing.

9fbf5d64-08b9-45f5-a177-14d124056a4d-0
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But in terms of particularly from the,
the crime sort of outbound,

9fbf5d64-08b9-45f5-a177-14d124056a4d-1
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the last sort of things,
I didn't actually encounter that many

9fbf5d64-08b9-45f5-a177-14d124056a4d-2
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works that had sort of had either fire
featuring as a main character or set

9fbf5d64-08b9-45f5-a177-14d124056a4d-3
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against the backdrop of fire bushfire.

98f7a13f-01f4-400b-a8c1-8ed06e91e761-0
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So I thought that that was a a good gap
in the market to kind of explore as well.

3d6011ab-9cb8-4452-94bd-b3f79209ccb2-0
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And that's how you think of it.

332d024c-895f-4753-8b18-5a246b0645c9-0
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Fire being a a major character very much,
very, very much.

d1c76bcd-d3ec-453d-af5b-39d0fff71773-0
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I should say as well,
the people's cleansing light worship fire.

13fef20f-1810-49cd-a8b3-318d0a45ff6c-0
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So they kind of that fire is going to
come and sweep through a biblical fire

13fef20f-1810-49cd-a8b3-318d0a45ff6c-1
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and kind of remove the unbelievers and
the true will will ascend to heaven or

13fef20f-1810-49cd-a8b3-318d0a45ff6c-2
00:06:27.100 --> 00:06:28.600
something along those lines.

d53516cc-ca10-4d2c-8ed9-d07239eaece5-0
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So, you know,
and then the townsfolk obviously then

d53516cc-ca10-4d2c-8ed9-d07239eaece5-1
00:06:30.988 --> 00:06:34.800
immediately blame them for a lot of these
blazes because they're deliberately lit.

673bc787-cdb6-4950-8d3a-3968aa2710ba-0
00:06:35.160 --> 00:06:37.752
So there's another factor that kind of
adds to,

673bc787-cdb6-4950-8d3a-3968aa2710ba-1
00:06:37.752 --> 00:06:40.560
for further conflict and pressure going
on as well.

c3c491a2-9aa4-454f-9aae-9958cb6e22b1-0
00:06:40.640 --> 00:06:43.751
I mean, not to minimise it,
it feels like it could work really well

c3c491a2-9aa4-454f-9aae-9958cb6e22b1-1
00:06:43.751 --> 00:06:46.360
as like a seasoned cliffhanger on Home
and Away as well.

ad3e255a-4a88-4a44-818e-f1bd35561d60-0
00:06:47.560 --> 00:06:48.360
Good old days.

05f19d0e-b85a-486b-8122-60f3172d2d43-0
00:06:48.480 --> 00:06:48.640
Yeah.

2e4d9ebf-4d71-4b30-af89-8a904a325b95-0
00:06:48.640 --> 00:06:51.698
Used to watch Home and Away when there
was floods and all that sort of stuff,

2e4d9ebf-4d71-4b30-af89-8a904a325b95-1
00:06:51.698 --> 00:06:52.600
people trapped in cars.

f8cb9a31-9654-4323-afa1-a8c2c2176bc2-0
00:06:52.600 --> 00:06:54.680
And he said, yeah, those are,
those are the good old days.

35129b29-423f-41a8-a9d6-613bfb12b66f-0
00:06:55.680 --> 00:06:56.360
Bring back the glory.

48bf3b00-668f-42ea-94d6-d1b62c93b309-0
00:06:56.360 --> 00:06:56.760
I wish.

f1c48b8c-c789-474b-8533-4fb948a17c0a-0
00:06:56.840 --> 00:06:58.920
I, I just like the highest form of praise.

80a486a6-b690-4331-91d5-a7df45e8a16c-0
00:06:58.920 --> 00:07:02.360
It's like likening it to that 'cause
that's just like my childhood right there.

fe9f154b-8f0c-4f08-80f8-10fb973d299a-0
00:07:02.640 --> 00:07:03.320
Absolutely.

68f0d9d7-4584-4b98-964c-87894ccbceee-0
00:07:03.360 --> 00:07:04.800
So that's based on your childhood.

87192483-8993-43d3-9af8-a2c24eddb92d-0
00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:07.080
You said growing up in a Australian town.

94c31cdf-cd8b-4f63-8e40-d44aa2e6e12c-0
00:07:07.080 --> 00:07:08.040
Yes, coastal town.

c648c8ee-c6b2-4fef-ae03-11c876598761-0
00:07:08.360 --> 00:07:10.920
And tell us about your Sydney series as
well.

6cd6a25c-6eec-4213-956e-b9717e7297e8-0
00:07:10.920 --> 00:07:11.200
OK.

7c1acdee-d072-41e9-9f2e-b669720c16e7-0
00:07:11.200 --> 00:07:11.880
So this is so.

c6b9c5ec-459c-44dc-be88-982c1dd1746c-0
00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:15.914
So I hope this isn't too much of A
spoiler, but Dahlia Turner,

c6b9c5ec-459c-44dc-be88-982c1dd1746c-1
00:07:15.914 --> 00:07:18.400
the main character, bit of an anti hero.

f8db7ffd-aa35-49ec-b4b9-20f0458f56e9-0
00:07:18.400 --> 00:07:23.502
She she survives and she comes back and
then the second book is set in Sydney

f8db7ffd-aa35-49ec-b4b9-20f0458f56e9-1
00:07:23.502 --> 00:07:24.680
with Dalia Turner.

65698f87-f582-4c53-a918-5092f1cc46f3-0
00:07:24.680 --> 00:07:26.840
In short,
kind of going up against the manosphere.

c33deb36-fc52-46af-8171-6f0a10a1e9f6-0
00:07:26.840 --> 00:07:30.990
So at the tail end of the last book,
I don't think this is too much of A

c33deb36-fc52-46af-8171-6f0a10a1e9f6-1
00:07:30.990 --> 00:07:33.832
spoiler,
but she makes a promise to her mother to

c33deb36-fc52-46af-8171-6f0a10a1e9f6-2
00:07:33.832 --> 00:07:38.040
kind of see what's happening with her
niece, who's increasingly troubled.

27afba93-66a4-4c5c-980d-17d3273988ee-0
00:07:38.280 --> 00:07:41.381
She has a very strange relationship with
her sister Heidi,

27afba93-66a4-4c5c-980d-17d3273988ee-1
00:07:41.381 --> 00:07:44.640
who is the mother of Isla,
the one in which is deteriorating.

f7987555-731b-4cde-81d8-43b9c8cefc38-0
00:07:45.160 --> 00:07:48.262
So she agrees to go to an event with Isla
in Sydney,

f7987555-731b-4cde-81d8-43b9c8cefc38-1
00:07:48.262 --> 00:07:51.600
sort of set in a fictional Central Park
shopping centre.

bb8e2907-37a7-40fb-b3d7-d184def2b38d-0
00:07:51.960 --> 00:07:56.589
That is revealed to be an event for a
sort of Andrew Tate type figure called

bb8e2907-37a7-40fb-b3d7-d184def2b38d-1
00:07:56.589 --> 00:08:00.016
Jackson Price,
who is unveiling his touring schedule for

bb8e2907-37a7-40fb-b3d7-d184def2b38d-2
00:08:00.016 --> 00:08:02.722
Sydney,
which happens to coincide with their

bb8e2907-37a7-40fb-b3d7-d184def2b38d-3
00:08:02.722 --> 00:08:05.908
child Shaw,
who's become somewhat of a feminist icon

bb8e2907-37a7-40fb-b3d7-d184def2b38d-4
00:08:05.908 --> 00:08:10.658
and celebrity and sort of the antithesis
of everything in which the manosphere

bb8e2907-37a7-40fb-b3d7-d184def2b38d-5
00:08:10.658 --> 00:08:11.320
stands for.

4f0db1c1-9570-40e1-ad64-af9ef9f51b31-0
00:08:11.760 --> 00:08:17.857
So they are having alternating also
coinciding events at the Darling Harbour

4f0db1c1-9570-40e1-ad64-af9ef9f51b31-1
00:08:17.857 --> 00:08:19.600
Arena lead up to that.

28b8fa6b-fc1b-4947-95eb-f6a259cc1269-0
00:08:19.600 --> 00:08:24.300
So while Dahlia and her niece are kind of
witnessing this event,

28b8fa6b-fc1b-4947-95eb-f6a259cc1269-1
00:08:24.300 --> 00:08:28.711
some of the Madonna's,
which is a cell or activist depending

28b8fa6b-fc1b-4947-95eb-f6a259cc1269-2
00:08:28.711 --> 00:08:32.906
upon who you look at,
interrupt this event with fireworks

28b8fa6b-fc1b-4947-95eb-f6a259cc1269-3
00:08:32.906 --> 00:08:34.279
causing a Stampede.

30f16e37-0ef9-412d-ac8a-bd897956a4fd-0
00:08:34.520 --> 00:08:37.841
As they do that,
two people jump off the top floor of the

30f16e37-0ef9-412d-ac8a-bd897956a4fd-1
00:08:37.841 --> 00:08:41.049
shopping centre,
revealed to be two young Sydneysiders,

30f16e37-0ef9-412d-ac8a-bd897956a4fd-2
00:08:41.049 --> 00:08:43.913
two young women that are not known to
each other,

30f16e37-0ef9-412d-ac8a-bd897956a4fd-3
00:08:43.913 --> 00:08:48.266
seemingly not known to each other,
but embroiled in what they believe to be

30f16e37-0ef9-412d-ac8a-bd897956a4fd-4
00:08:48.266 --> 00:08:51.760
this sort of manosphere group targeting
young women as well.

70867eef-3f5a-4e53-aebe-2d94b970d5e7-0
00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:56.052
So Dahlia is quickly uncovering that her
niece is much more involved than she

70867eef-3f5a-4e53-aebe-2d94b970d5e7-1
00:08:56.052 --> 00:08:57.040
previously thought.

fc1b4de2-f612-4fd6-8b36-60cb5f41b2a5-0
00:08:57.280 --> 00:09:02.040
And as the investigation continues in the
lead up towards the climactic sort of and

fc1b4de2-f612-4fd6-8b36-60cb5f41b2a5-1
00:09:02.040 --> 00:09:06.176
between these two events kind of
coinciding it depending upon what Dolly

fc1b4de2-f612-4fd6-8b36-60cb5f41b2a5-2
00:09:06.176 --> 00:09:09.520
is going to find out and happening with
her niece as well.

57580337-e279-47c7-a289-428292937360-0
00:09:09.520 --> 00:09:12.960
So interesting to hear a man writing
about the manosphere.

b19df44b-5858-4272-9aaa-ad4d024594fb-0
00:09:12.960 --> 00:09:15.998
We talked to in previous years to Ashley
Collegium Blunt,

b19df44b-5858-4272-9aaa-ad4d024594fb-1
00:09:15.998 --> 00:09:19.560
who writes about the manosphere as well
in a crime sort of setting.

3d88a47b-98db-49c4-9a2d-7c822ba94f7e-0
00:09:19.920 --> 00:09:23.520
So I'm interested in in what you wanted
to say about that.

d911b7ec-5683-4cdb-bc73-38abecfff10d-0
00:09:24.120 --> 00:09:26.050
Well,
I think that the the manosphere is

d911b7ec-5683-4cdb-bc73-38abecfff10d-1
00:09:26.050 --> 00:09:27.840
something that kind of is on the rise.

fe48a7a3-48c3-4325-a5f3-045f752eb86b-0
00:09:27.840 --> 00:09:31.169
I don't think that it's kind of I think
people kind of laugh that and you kind of

fe48a7a3-48c3-4325-a5f3-045f752eb86b-1
00:09:31.169 --> 00:09:34.296
get these figures like Andrew Tate,
where people because of what they say is

fe48a7a3-48c3-4325-a5f3-045f752eb86b-2
00:09:34.296 --> 00:09:35.840
so absurd and they're easy to dismiss.

b8192632-7f91-4a62-b2f1-448789370bfb-0
00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:39.089
I think that that's the,
the alarming and I think the Andrew Tate,

b8192632-7f91-4a62-b2f1-448789370bfb-1
00:09:39.089 --> 00:09:41.805
perhaps he's had his, his time and his,
you know, it's,

b8192632-7f91-4a62-b2f1-448789370bfb-2
00:09:41.805 --> 00:09:45.880
it's he doesn't have as much of A sort of
following or he trends as much as he did.

635ff76f-b47d-465d-9cea-acdd119c3145-0
00:09:46.160 --> 00:09:49.080
But I think that he exemplifies the kind
of people that do rise up.

dbf49346-6357-4d2a-8afe-f5a4a2a1eae2-0
00:09:49.080 --> 00:09:51.520
So they flash in a pan because of how
extreme they are.

e025d4bf-5456-42ec-aff1-5583e5463684-0
00:09:51.520 --> 00:09:54.747
But when they're around,
they come out in such clout and so much

e025d4bf-5456-42ec-aff1-5583e5463684-1
00:09:54.747 --> 00:09:58.720
of an influence that that kind of thing
can't be just laughed at and dismissed.

b448d927-6b47-4aab-bcbc-bca90a11f3ab-0
00:09:58.720 --> 00:10:01.160
And they always appeal like any sort of
despot.

702928d4-7507-4cee-a9b1-50ae10b02008-0
00:10:01.160 --> 00:10:05.520
They always appeal to whom I believe is
the people that are responsible for kind

702928d4-7507-4cee-a9b1-50ae10b02008-1
00:10:05.520 --> 00:10:06.920
of like the world's worst.

4a38791f-1271-48b5-8ccc-4ba92a81e75b-0
00:10:06.920 --> 00:10:08.732
Well,
the history's worst travesties and

4a38791f-1271-48b5-8ccc-4ba92a81e75b-1
00:10:08.732 --> 00:10:10.280
trustees is is the angry young men.

b3804642-c9f7-4d74-94b1-499abd75c203-0
00:10:10.400 --> 00:10:13.836
So you'll appeal to this group of angry
young men and they're the ones that can,

b3804642-c9f7-4d74-94b1-499abd75c203-1
00:10:13.836 --> 00:10:16.000
you know,
lead an uprising and essentially kind of

b3804642-c9f7-4d74-94b1-499abd75c203-2
00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:17.400
point you into position of power.

33c73991-9b37-4c50-8da8-c6962eeb8b9e-0
00:10:17.400 --> 00:10:19.680
It's not too outrageous for this sort of
thing to happen.

ff2caa6b-4ce0-4b23-84f4-e93aec2b21be-0
00:10:19.680 --> 00:10:22.720
I think this is the new generation that's
experiencing this sort of thing.

8b5911ff-7f38-477c-9693-63bfc4913e47-0
00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:26.523
This is this is what this is now is what
Hitler had with the brown shirts and

8b5911ff-7f38-477c-9693-63bfc4913e47-1
00:10:26.523 --> 00:10:29.400
enlight of the night of the long knives
and sort of thing.

956a6b83-1d7c-41b0-a9c9-271d4c7797c0-0
00:10:29.400 --> 00:10:32.080
I truly think that there's a line direct
correlation between the two.

d5c00692-7be9-461e-8228-bb086a0b4c4f-0
00:10:32.080 --> 00:10:35.256
I was going to say,
I'm not sure if it's special to our time

d5c00692-7be9-461e-8228-bb086a0b4c4f-1
00:10:35.256 --> 00:10:39.370
or if it's kind of a resurgent because
these figures that you're talking about

d5c00692-7be9-461e-8228-bb086a0b4c4f-2
00:10:39.370 --> 00:10:43.640
and they're compelling if you're not the
kind of person who is attracted to them.

ac61e836-ad47-4627-8f23-e1b7ff7fd862-0
00:10:43.640 --> 00:10:43.800
Yep.

22096ee4-7828-48e9-9124-515a308d9389-0
00:10:43.960 --> 00:10:47.160
But they are very appealing to a certain
kind of people.

edd35a8f-ea03-4241-94c6-7d46f395867c-0
00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:51.640
But there seem to be a like a constant
stream of these cycles for sure figures.

180de33a-db59-4a10-b299-418b74fd211c-0
00:10:51.640 --> 00:10:55.370
I'm not sure if this is just the times
that we live in or if it's always been

180de33a-db59-4a10-b299-418b74fd211c-1
00:10:55.370 --> 00:10:59.100
like this and they're just, well, I,
I guess The thing is now and what people

180de33a-db59-4a10-b299-418b74fd211c-2
00:10:59.100 --> 00:11:02.878
in the manosphere would say is that men
are feeling marginalised in a way that

180de33a-db59-4a10-b299-418b74fd211c-3
00:11:02.878 --> 00:11:04.600
maybe they haven't felt in the past.

2a125e37-b02e-48f9-a31f-4c3065401b84-0
00:11:04.600 --> 00:11:07.200
And that's driving a lot of this pushback.

7b626051-461e-426e-96d5-ad479200b740-0
00:11:07.200 --> 00:11:08.758
Definitely adding on from what you're
saying,

7b626051-461e-426e-96d5-ad479200b740-1
00:11:08.758 --> 00:11:11.300
I think there's a few different factors
that are working in there from me,

7b626051-461e-426e-96d5-ad479200b740-2
00:11:11.300 --> 00:11:12.520
from the outside kind of looking in.

4ae25aaa-8bde-4e57-a408-5ca86a58dbad-0
00:11:12.520 --> 00:11:14.734
So I think that you have, yeah,
a lot of disenfranchised,

4ae25aaa-8bde-4e57-a408-5ca86a58dbad-1
00:11:14.734 --> 00:11:17.178
disillusioned young men,
that feeling that they're being either

4ae25aaa-8bde-4e57-a408-5ca86a58dbad-2
00:11:17.178 --> 00:11:20.080
replaced or they're being punished for
their sort of perceived masculinity.

951578d6-6581-4fe2-973d-fd4f0b717583-0
00:11:20.360 --> 00:11:22.720
So there's a, you know,
masculinity in crisis.

3a2f4648-e2bb-4afa-8209-d944b018972b-0
00:11:22.760 --> 00:11:25.952
So there's a fictional character that's
kind of based on a sort of Jordan

3a2f4648-e2bb-4afa-8209-d944b018972b-1
00:11:25.952 --> 00:11:28.800
Peterson type that kind of legitimise
this of an era of academia.

a0ddbfb3-a28e-419e-993e-fdb97de23ea3-0
00:11:29.320 --> 00:11:31.658
So they have a book out about masculinity
in crisis,

a0ddbfb3-a28e-419e-993e-fdb97de23ea3-1
00:11:31.658 --> 00:11:33.600
which kind of features in my novel as
well.

6457fc75-3dbd-4219-a594-02ded8b043ed-0
00:11:33.760 --> 00:11:36.311
So that's sort of as this area of
legitimacy of academia,

6457fc75-3dbd-4219-a594-02ded8b043ed-1
00:11:36.311 --> 00:11:38.994
like men perceiving that, you know,
masculinities in Christ,

6457fc75-3dbd-4219-a594-02ded8b043ed-2
00:11:38.994 --> 00:11:41.852
smallest sort of stuff,
which is just really sort of hate speech

6457fc75-3dbd-4219-a594-02ded8b043ed-3
00:11:41.852 --> 00:11:44.360
and paves the way for groups of
predominantly young men.

1a4fb9a6-39ac-4450-b3ae-11bab9e110c6-0
00:11:44.360 --> 00:11:47.888
But all the you know,
this this from all ages that then become

1a4fb9a6-39ac-4450-b3ae-11bab9e110c6-1
00:11:47.888 --> 00:11:49.120
this weaponized force.

826caf5b-f9b7-4acd-b475-2067595529b9-0
00:11:49.640 --> 00:11:52.748
And then so you've got that factor,
but then you've also got the younger

826caf5b-f9b7-4acd-b475-2067595529b9-1
00:11:52.748 --> 00:11:53.600
generations as well.

dc604e3c-a16c-4b0e-8e3a-24f31a38870f-0
00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:57.527
So the Louis Faro new Louis Faro
manosphere documentary recently and how

dc604e3c-a16c-4b0e-8e3a-24f31a38870f-1
00:11:57.527 --> 00:12:00.217
young people,
young men particular idolise these,

dc604e3c-a16c-4b0e-8e3a-24f31a38870f-2
00:12:00.217 --> 00:12:02.800
these fringe dwelling sort of four leader
guys.

c7d4d406-a999-43c4-b2d5-87051def04f9-0
00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:04.760
All that sort of adds to it as well.

f1037d1b-06f0-44a8-80f2-10ad7635d3b4-0
00:12:04.840 --> 00:12:09.388
So you've got real young guys,
young or teenage boys or children being

f1037d1b-06f0-44a8-80f2-10ad7635d3b4-1
00:12:09.388 --> 00:12:13.680
very impressed and being very easily led
by these sort of figures.

3d348e58-af85-4945-b0f8-fc3c0ba87e07-0
00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:17.080
All of which makes fertile ground for,
I think what deep fake.

09215715-b453-4ae7-ac10-194999aa1228-0
00:12:17.200 --> 00:12:20.790
Hopefully I've explored and kind of start
a bit of a discourse, I don't know,

09215715-b453-4ae7-ac10-194999aa1228-1
00:12:20.790 --> 00:12:22.080
like we're having right now.

7715c432-1d93-4945-9fa8-a42031803022-0
00:12:22.440 --> 00:12:24.480
Now,
I understand you also write short fiction.

1445125b-2eb1-41e9-8341-0f2aa3c32e9f-0
00:12:24.880 --> 00:12:25.880
I do, yes.

4773dd33-41ed-4528-912d-1c3dd8979017-0
00:12:25.880 --> 00:12:27.320
We're very interested in short fiction.

1de9b63a-db40-40fe-9e1f-5f59e079477c-0
00:12:27.320 --> 00:12:29.280
We have a competition,
short fiction competition.

0944cef2-c8ef-4f23-a317-8452a45e2b7c-0
00:12:29.760 --> 00:12:32.360
So you've published some collected
stories.

5fbce343-5745-4e7c-820c-bd2dc473d30a-0
00:12:32.560 --> 00:12:35.076
I've published,
I've had a few out in like the Big Issue

5fbce343-5745-4e7c-820c-bd2dc473d30a-1
00:12:35.076 --> 00:12:35.960
and stuff like that.

069318eb-173a-4a7c-a761-8f4d412d911b-0
00:12:35.960 --> 00:12:36.160
OK.

99ccac2e-97e1-4687-9eaa-9e8622125c74-0
00:12:36.200 --> 00:12:37.800
I've had one in the Southerly.

97ce1b7b-cb27-4820-a220-2804aabc9ff2-0
00:12:38.080 --> 00:12:42.320
I had one in Better than Dead's inaugural
anthology as well.

f164d5e5-a919-4f11-aff8-02ca750a5391-0
00:12:42.640 --> 00:12:45.360
So I have great love for the short story
medium.

3af10fd5-9af3-4ae1-95a9-e280b27c5446-0
00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:49.785
And do you typically write short crime
fiction or I don't know if I'm if I'm

3af10fd5-9af3-4ae1-95a9-e280b27c5446-1
00:12:49.785 --> 00:12:50.960
good enough to write.

b25d8838-9ed7-4830-bc91-348fc550216f-0
00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:51.960
I think that's hard.

270a0bf4-3a97-44d3-a96d-3608b8639e36-0
00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:55.482
I think that's that's that's that's
really hard because short fiction I think

270a0bf4-3a97-44d3-a96d-3608b8639e36-1
00:12:55.482 --> 00:12:59.049
is actually one of the most underrated
and tough actually types of writing you

270a0bf4-3a97-44d3-a96d-3608b8639e36-2
00:12:59.049 --> 00:13:01.804
could possibly do because it's by virtue
of how short it is,

270a0bf4-3a97-44d3-a96d-3608b8639e36-3
00:13:01.804 --> 00:13:03.520
it's actually hard to kind of achieve.

2bfa0ce0-dfdd-4818-a742-e11c93f137c2-0
00:13:03.680 --> 00:13:06.931
And I feel like the best sort of short
fiction is the one that you feel like

2bfa0ce0-dfdd-4818-a742-e11c93f137c2-1
00:13:06.931 --> 00:13:10.141
you've only got a snapshot of a much
bigger story and then it keeps telling

2bfa0ce0-dfdd-4818-a742-e11c93f137c2-2
00:13:10.141 --> 00:13:12.760
itself to you long after you finish
reading that short story.

af918d1b-1367-4a6d-8a31-6428361e1141-0
00:13:12.760 --> 00:13:13.080
I don't know.

5ac95199-2fe2-4e42-bf4c-cb0a998e2f3f-0
00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:14.760
But it still has to be satisfying within.

2a321072-2a54-443d-80f1-f047e1c4ffdb-0
00:13:14.760 --> 00:13:16.800
It still has to be satisfying within
itself.

b28a5d55-eb7a-42b7-aea6-3af8af816491-0
00:13:16.800 --> 00:13:16.960
Yeah.

dd5d4c9d-5eb6-4e7c-bbe9-e27490d9846c-0
00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:20.640
I think it is tough in particular for
genre fiction to fit into short fiction.

10c6562a-8320-4515-ac45-0aaff0facc53-0
00:13:20.640 --> 00:13:23.819
So something like crime where you need
all that set up and it's all very

10c6562a-8320-4515-ac45-0aaff0facc53-1
00:13:23.819 --> 00:13:24.560
character driven.

415f4b76-2953-45b7-be1a-208a218f8b07-0
00:13:24.560 --> 00:13:24.760
Yeah.

8968d160-a62a-426d-960b-2620a162ea31-0
00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:28.551
And there's back story and that feeds
into it and all the twists and turns is

8968d160-a62a-426d-960b-2620a162ea31-1
00:13:28.551 --> 00:13:31.920
something that you can't really achieve
absolutely in the shorter format.

afb1c9f3-08cf-430e-b158-d0333d5a636d-0
00:13:31.920 --> 00:13:33.680
But you obviously like to write both.

ad45c258-9ca7-48ad-ad6d-3d74995cb263-0
00:13:33.880 --> 00:13:34.440
Very much.

e50888e5-5041-4ae7-98b9-4380415dc728-0
00:13:34.480 --> 00:13:35.000
Very much.

789bbcad-f1c0-47e4-93ff-fbe6a0f57906-0
00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:35.680
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

b198fa82-a41d-47ac-85f0-c3f4b9ec3188-0
00:13:36.040 --> 00:13:37.573
Of the short stories that I've had
published,

b198fa82-a41d-47ac-85f0-c3f4b9ec3188-1
00:13:37.573 --> 00:13:40.273
none of which I think are straight into
the the crime too much because it's like

b198fa82-a41d-47ac-85f0-c3f4b9ec3188-2
00:13:40.273 --> 00:13:42.173
you said, like they, you know,
you need the conventions,

b198fa82-a41d-47ac-85f0-c3f4b9ec3188-3
00:13:42.173 --> 00:13:43.440
need the build up and stuff like that.

0e684f07-f2e2-4a6d-bdb3-2f2d79ef04e7-0
00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:43.880
Yeah, yeah.

be89e0a7-c219-497c-b890-8ec7b81e329e-0
00:13:44.160 --> 00:13:47.097
I think that the Sisters of Crime have a
stiletto awards,

be89e0a7-c219-497c-b890-8ec7b81e329e-1
00:13:47.097 --> 00:13:49.680
that they have a short story competition
of crime.

3e7afe33-5b6c-4090-88c8-584418b0ad0b-0
00:13:49.680 --> 00:13:52.160
But yeah, I'm yet to,
I'm yet to tackle that.

f04c6a17-aaaa-4c53-9811-64159fff05d8-0
00:13:52.160 --> 00:13:52.480
Based.

f9b5ff58-566f-438f-92b2-c4b86e4a7cb4-0
00:13:52.520 --> 00:13:54.400
I think it's a bit a challenge for the
future.

31984085-76a9-4d0a-9156-142b02ea6898-0
00:13:54.400 --> 00:13:54.880
Very much.

f5935f4c-14a5-48c1-b2ad-b17f6121ab56-0
00:13:56.240 --> 00:13:57.360
Well, thanks for chatting with us, Sam.

98730071-3f5d-49bb-aae4-4f77749cf3b1-0
00:13:57.360 --> 00:14:00.200
And your books are called Haze and
Deepfake.

1b4b52e3-74e0-4e9c-bc84-8a681cba2f5f-0
00:14:00.200 --> 00:14:04.332
Deepfake is to follow come publication
time that next year if everything keeps

1b4b52e3-74e0-4e9c-bc84-8a681cba2f5f-1
00:14:04.332 --> 00:14:07.000
going well,
keeping those fingers crossed the next

1b4b52e3-74e0-4e9c-bc84-8a681cba2f5f-2
00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:07.680
draught back.

dd6222b2-cc14-4256-8a11-f1d67dc881c9-0
00:14:07.680 --> 00:14:07.880
Yeah.

1fea80f3-f82b-46aa-b92c-4d71c614655b-0
00:14:07.920 --> 00:14:08.640
Thank you so much.

11a45c5b-86c0-4065-a8d3-ef293a0d406f-0
00:14:08.760 --> 00:14:09.400
Really appreciate it.

8e68436a-4461-47b5-b531-58a743a60779-0
00:14:09.400 --> 00:14:09.760
In a minute.

436e9e8a-4939-4536-98bc-586a97f04f7f-0
00:14:12.120 --> 00:14:15.732
This has been a special presentation of
the Not Quite Right podcast in

436e9e8a-4939-4536-98bc-586a97f04f7f-1
00:14:15.732 --> 00:14:18.480
collaboration with Words on the Ways
Riders Festival.

410ba414-7424-4298-91bc-d03a35b4f7e0-0
00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:22.443
Check the show notes For more information
about Words on the Waves and the books

410ba414-7424-4298-91bc-d03a35b4f7e0-1
00:14:22.443 --> 00:14:23.600
mentioned in this episode.

f23b3e66-5667-4484-ab4b-25ebd2e9621c-0
00:14:24.040 --> 00:14:26.976
If you're new to the podcast,
please join us again for our regular

f23b3e66-5667-4484-ab4b-25ebd2e9621c-1
00:14:26.976 --> 00:14:30.000
episodes where we talk about media,
culture, and the art of writing.

83de6286-5fd1-4282-8a2b-4d3be44b7f7e-0
00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:33.880
Something doesn't seem quite right.