WEBVTT

b5bd6cbf-75a8-46b4-be32-7e62a1906ef4-0
00:00:13.280 --> 00:00:14.880
Something doesn't seem quite right.

de692fb3-8607-45a7-8e56-ddf5462c661f-0
00:00:16.560 --> 00:00:17.760
Welcome to Not Quite Right.

d0e49ba8-1d9b-449f-8ecc-ff3a0dc7b975-0
00:00:17.800 --> 00:00:22.312
My name's Ed, and I'm Amanda,
And we are here at Words on the Waves,

d0e49ba8-1d9b-449f-8ecc-ff3a0dc7b975-1
00:00:22.312 --> 00:00:25.320
and we're speaking today with Jennifer
Mills.

afe9e094-ccbf-42c3-851a-5b9213923932-0
00:00:25.600 --> 00:00:28.160
We spoke to Jennifer about fairy tales,
actually.

b624cbc3-136d-47e3-87d3-ffc25af084cb-0
00:00:28.160 --> 00:00:33.280
So Jennifer was invited to reimagine the
story of Hansel and Gretel for the stage.

536260b9-face-40a3-8fc7-1ec273ea95c1-0
00:00:33.280 --> 00:00:36.178
And we also talked about the experience,
I suppose,

536260b9-face-40a3-8fc7-1ec273ea95c1-1
00:00:36.178 --> 00:00:40.413
of having your work translated to the
stage and seeing how someone else has

536260b9-face-40a3-8fc7-1ec273ea95c1-2
00:00:40.413 --> 00:00:41.639
imagined your writing.

0acbfc61-01b2-42ea-be3b-2bb7f267e97a-0
00:00:41.840 --> 00:00:45.314
And we also spoke to her about the
climate emergency and what hope there is

0acbfc61-01b2-42ea-be3b-2bb7f267e97a-1
00:00:45.314 --> 00:00:46.000
for the future.

ed28c001-b188-4a07-b89e-079c4f8e6888-0
00:00:46.640 --> 00:00:49.240
So here is our chat with Jennifer Mills.

be63a015-40a2-4842-9fa5-fcb1abca9277-0
00:00:52.000 --> 00:00:54.920
We are here at Words on the Waves with
Jennifer Mills.

4b410a7f-50b5-4dde-8e88-ad334b202b5c-0
00:00:55.000 --> 00:00:55.640
Good morning.

0248da8c-36c5-442c-88f1-2a4a63dbaec4-0
00:00:55.840 --> 00:00:58.440
So you're here at Words on the Waves for
a few things.

e48a2dee-927d-4cd1-b894-cf8ea15d1548-0
00:00:58.520 --> 00:01:00.240
Why don't you tell us what brings you
here?

3cd93317-65c9-4201-9863-2340504d66dd-0
00:01:00.360 --> 00:01:03.440
Well, I did a couple of events yesterday.

40fa8d36-274a-4380-8d9b-0280193f3599-0
00:01:03.440 --> 00:01:08.388
One was about the publishing industry as
part of the professional development

40fa8d36-274a-4380-8d9b-0280193f3599-1
00:01:08.388 --> 00:01:11.496
stream,
and that was fantastic to talk with some

40fa8d36-274a-4380-8d9b-0280193f3599-2
00:01:11.496 --> 00:01:13.400
emerging and aspiring writers.

5a307bc1-ceef-44c8-bfde-86147f5bba59-0
00:01:13.400 --> 00:01:17.153
And yesterday I also chaired a session
called Inked In,

5a307bc1-ceef-44c8-bfde-86147f5bba59-1
00:01:17.153 --> 00:01:22.449
which was about bushfires and Australian
writing with three really interesting

5a307bc1-ceef-44c8-bfde-86147f5bba59-2
00:01:22.449 --> 00:01:23.119
novelists.

3e3dd632-0ce9-4109-ab21-9caf4fd71f38-0
00:01:23.120 --> 00:01:28.014
And today I'm talking about fairy tales
on a panel with Kate Holden,

3e3dd632-0ce9-4109-ab21-9caf4fd71f38-1
00:01:28.014 --> 00:01:30.000
which will be very exciting.

14f9587d-3c54-4f8d-b067-c694d42e4d9f-0
00:01:30.280 --> 00:01:32.600
And is that in relation to your book?

7f6c5708-93b2-432d-a14e-bc50fac69d72-0
00:01:32.720 --> 00:01:35.460
Yes,
so this is actually the book that I'm

7f6c5708-93b2-432d-a14e-bc50fac69d72-1
00:01:35.460 --> 00:01:38.520
talking about today is actually a side
project.

b63a8711-f47b-451d-a844-05d35adc237d-0
00:01:38.520 --> 00:01:41.440
So I do have a practise as a novelist
myself.

3bfa7bde-b44c-4c6d-bc9c-03fcafb23879-0
00:01:41.440 --> 00:01:45.240
So my last book was Salvage which came
out in June last year.

c44cd664-ff7b-4199-b1bf-37e6f49ce603-0
00:01:45.240 --> 00:01:49.406
But then in my spare time I was
commissioned to write a reimagined

c44cd664-ff7b-4199-b1bf-37e6f49ce603-1
00:01:49.406 --> 00:01:54.629
version of Hansel and Gretel by a theatre
company in Adelaide called Slingsby for a

c44cd664-ff7b-4199-b1bf-37e6f49ce603-2
00:01:54.629 --> 00:01:58.360
show they were doing called A Concise
Compendium of Wonder.

ce4756b8-d2f1-4acf-8a8f-dd4e39bf69ec-0
00:01:58.760 --> 00:02:02.360
They commissioned 3 writers to write
stories.

0a23fd32-c328-4f45-860a-830f5d782de2-0
00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:05.240
They're all staged by the same three
actors.

11a48f18-b6d7-4519-87d2-43c6872652a6-0
00:02:05.240 --> 00:02:07.160
They are each one hour plays.

406b4553-759c-4c6c-8786-b0d53c6c7214-0
00:02:07.480 --> 00:02:12.369
And I wasn't writing directly for theatre,
I was writing a short story that was then

406b4553-759c-4c6c-8786-b0d53c6c7214-1
00:02:12.369 --> 00:02:13.520
adapted for theatre.

cf376365-a550-4fe4-9c15-f648570ba4e5-0
00:02:13.520 --> 00:02:16.606
So it was a very,
very interesting process because it was

cf376365-a550-4fe4-9c15-f648570ba4e5-1
00:02:16.606 --> 00:02:19.320
the writing part of it was quite ordinary,
my own.

16aa0cb5-fee2-429a-93bd-8609ab0ba6f8-0
00:02:19.320 --> 00:02:23.600
But then the the production and seeing it
all happen was very magical.

360da669-f63a-4409-8476-f4bd3ce0f581-0
00:02:23.800 --> 00:02:28.528
So did you have a role in the playwriting
or did you step aside once you'd written

360da669-f63a-4409-8476-f4bd3ce0f581-1
00:02:28.528 --> 00:02:29.440
the short story?

f147a464-d67a-40b2-ade1-d8bc6d7ef0bf-0
00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:30.760
I stepped aside.

b0c093c4-48ff-418c-8bab-58d9cabe5077-0
00:02:31.320 --> 00:02:36.002
Slingsby did tap me on the shoulder
occasionally and asked my opinion about

b0c093c4-48ff-418c-8bab-58d9cabe5077-1
00:02:36.002 --> 00:02:39.205
certain things,
but it wasn't a process where I was

b0c093c4-48ff-418c-8bab-58d9cabe5077-2
00:02:39.205 --> 00:02:42.040
involved in the the adaptation or the
script.

ae920b32-31e0-4d24-b00e-46f618bbef13-0
00:02:42.080 --> 00:02:46.253
And for me that was really exciting
because it was it allowed me to see what

ae920b32-31e0-4d24-b00e-46f618bbef13-1
00:02:46.253 --> 00:02:47.880
someone else would do with it.

f1906f45-33ea-4b8c-9da6-d4b6ba7cbdb8-0
00:02:48.280 --> 00:02:52.284
So when you write a novel,
it has to be imagined again by a reader,

f1906f45-33ea-4b8c-9da6-d4b6ba7cbdb8-1
00:02:52.284 --> 00:02:55.700
but as a writer,
you don't get to see how they imagine it

f1906f45-33ea-4b8c-9da6-d4b6ba7cbdb8-2
00:02:55.700 --> 00:02:58.880
or what their interpretation is unless
they tell you.

b4fe9bcb-1e6b-4c48-8570-c943dd5d2414-0
00:02:58.880 --> 00:03:02.080
Sometimes people do at festivals,
like why did you do this?

3c8fc72f-40c9-45c1-a556-39ce8751b8ca-0
00:03:02.720 --> 00:03:05.120
And they'll say things that I'm like, oh,
I didn't know that was there.

f5ab8505-a48a-453b-842c-b60ce6c7cf16-0
00:03:05.440 --> 00:03:09.143
But with theatre,
who is able to very quickly see how how

f5ab8505-a48a-453b-842c-b60ce6c7cf16-1
00:03:09.143 --> 00:03:13.294
they managed the sort of storytelling,
how they built the world,

f5ab8505-a48a-453b-842c-b60ce6c7cf16-2
00:03:13.294 --> 00:03:17.892
how they imagined the characters,
hearing sense and everything as well,

f5ab8505-a48a-453b-842c-b60ce6c7cf16-3
00:03:17.892 --> 00:03:19.999
you actually get to visualise it.

ac2097e1-c70a-4c65-a108-44010e1cddd1-0
00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:20.560
So yeah.

71baec6b-6759-45c9-a6f1-89fca19b613a-0
00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:21.960
And hearing your own words.

09250044-f5c1-403e-820f-7a56271124c3-0
00:03:21.960 --> 00:03:26.661
So the the script actually is quite
verbatim to the story because it is a

09250044-f5c1-403e-820f-7a56271124c3-1
00:03:26.661 --> 00:03:28.440
storytelling kind of a play.

27fb3f6b-b42b-4524-90ab-e84b8ffa63e3-0
00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:30.400
And they're staged for young people.

efbe97cd-462e-4923-b3e9-a86e860b17a8-0
00:03:30.400 --> 00:03:33.813
So it's very much like, come in,
we're telling you this story,

efbe97cd-462e-4923-b3e9-a86e860b17a8-1
00:03:33.813 --> 00:03:36.956
which is fantastic,
but hearing your own sentences spoken

efbe97cd-462e-4923-b3e9-a86e860b17a8-2
00:03:36.956 --> 00:03:41.290
really beautifully by professional actors
is something that I think I could get

efbe97cd-462e-4923-b3e9-a86e860b17a8-3
00:03:41.290 --> 00:03:42.320
really addicted to.

aa3c7f31-096c-4b02-a06b-b52af34f721a-0
00:03:42.320 --> 00:03:45.800
OK, so tell us about the adaptation.

1bb71450-d594-4fde-b086-5202b4a05243-0
00:03:45.800 --> 00:03:46.880
You're saying Hansel and Gretel.

ac72b059-03cf-4940-ab31-041d72d0b9e3-0
00:03:46.880 --> 00:03:48.320
What was your take on that?

2b54c21d-5c84-4214-a8f9-99eb8aa3aec8-0
00:03:48.440 --> 00:03:53.840
So I set the story in a kind of fairy
tale mediaeval village.

21a79960-e361-430e-92f9-7d1c1e6cdd8b-0
00:03:53.840 --> 00:03:59.698
But I was interested in the idea of the
famine and the hunger of these children

21a79960-e361-430e-92f9-7d1c1e6cdd8b-1
00:03:59.698 --> 00:04:03.800
and why they would be hungry was my
starting off point.

18f5e1aa-13bd-40cf-9274-93a0b3ff2b1b-0
00:04:04.280 --> 00:04:08.259
And from there,
I sort of created this world where

18f5e1aa-13bd-40cf-9274-93a0b3ff2b1b-1
00:04:08.259 --> 00:04:13.800
there's a landlord who's collecting
tithes or taxes from the peasants.

05306761-de5c-4dc9-b728-bfb8d054f09b-0
00:04:14.320 --> 00:04:16.680
And this family,
they've lost their mother.

4506dfa4-0e9b-4fd7-b55c-673bc7513699-0
00:04:17.000 --> 00:04:19.360
So the two kids are living with their
father.

501bfa28-19a3-4f86-ae45-714e860cca0b-0
00:04:19.440 --> 00:04:20.400
They're very poor.

320a4315-2ed8-49ee-9872-7f4ab095b32d-0
00:04:20.400 --> 00:04:23.440
And it hasn't stopped raining for about
two years at this point.

70220498-8713-47fc-bb1c-2846b55d357f-0
00:04:23.880 --> 00:04:26.400
And so the land is not producing anything.

74a870c1-2d42-4e29-8c81-77175d0d26e6-0
00:04:26.400 --> 00:04:30.720
And they're working the land for somebody
else, for the landlord basically.

e5125385-ebbb-4ffb-8114-57fc4ea44373-0
00:04:30.720 --> 00:04:35.412
So I was interested in the kind of social
causes of famine rather than are you

e5125385-ebbb-4ffb-8114-57fc4ea44373-1
00:04:35.412 --> 00:04:36.600
getting these ideas?

620af98e-c721-4131-b547-5702b13d3935-0
00:04:36.600 --> 00:04:39.440
I know well the world around me.

3aea6313-b768-4656-8e49-9dcff8fedd12-0
00:04:39.440 --> 00:04:44.995
But I was also looking at my own sort of
family story as well because my mother's

3aea6313-b768-4656-8e49-9dcff8fedd12-1
00:04:44.995 --> 00:04:46.080
family is Irish.

7ffca421-a6f9-449d-80f1-eabbbfec6791-0
00:04:46.640 --> 00:04:52.560
So I was interested in that history and,
you know, colonisation causing famine.

e7768cb2-9a81-4407-a0a1-4155c8c98d6a-0
00:04:53.080 --> 00:04:58.111
And the kids in the story who are called
Cran and Ray, they're sort of teenagers,

e7768cb2-9a81-4407-a0a1-4155c8c98d6a-1
00:04:58.111 --> 00:04:59.400
young tweens I'd say.

81056aee-3cba-401c-b085-309b9bffba66-0
00:04:59.760 --> 00:05:05.016
They selected by the landlord to be taken
to the town and there is a threat that

81056aee-3cba-401c-b085-309b9bffba66-1
00:05:05.016 --> 00:05:08.520
they will be eaten because the famine is
so terrible.

5c57bae5-cda6-42ea-b153-87f92c2e90a5-0
00:05:08.960 --> 00:05:13.039
And they escape and they run into the
forest and then things get really magical

5c57bae5-cda6-42ea-b153-87f92c2e90a5-1
00:05:13.039 --> 00:05:13.600
from there.

7cd61549-17e8-47c9-8b2d-8c48a9175ba5-0
00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:15.960
So that was my interpretation.

1bc9d56a-c527-4bad-b9e0-bada39c25ab9-0
00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:19.320
Rather than making it an evil witch in
the forest.

8b899ba4-b1ea-4145-ad29-d87a75fc833c-0
00:05:19.320 --> 00:05:23.680
I was really interested in, OK,
where is the villain in this story?

3037fd87-0ece-4408-ab42-4f276560991d-0
00:05:23.680 --> 00:05:25.000
Where can I sit the villain?

2c008cc5-39dc-4a92-90d8-070752e3b26b-0
00:05:26.040 --> 00:05:27.600
And you got some dark themes there, right?

bfb3092c-5417-4168-a5c8-a8d37a3b1b68-0
00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:30.200
And you mentioned it's directed at young
people.

db9b170a-2f05-41ce-9490-13a0923e9202-0
00:05:30.200 --> 00:05:33.819
Did you find yourself able to really
explore those and let loose,

db9b170a-2f05-41ce-9490-13a0923e9202-1
00:05:33.819 --> 00:05:38.480
or did you have to hold back a little bit
on the exploration to protect young minds?

317552f2-b2e1-47f0-9bcf-63544460bbe2-0
00:05:38.920 --> 00:05:42.560
It was interesting, you know,
because I didn't really think about it.

d55bb582-f7dc-4c19-895c-b904e9915962-0
00:05:42.920 --> 00:05:47.116
And when I had the initial meeting with
Slingsby, I said,

d55bb582-f7dc-4c19-895c-b904e9915962-1
00:05:47.116 --> 00:05:49.360
but I don't write for children.

98219125-f4ee-48aa-a7db-c56d93e0f0e2-0
00:05:49.880 --> 00:05:52.960
And they said don't worry about it,
Just do what you always do.

22c18fab-b65e-4237-a47d-19cccffe4326-0
00:05:53.480 --> 00:05:54.960
We'll figure it out.

43978b67-bb4e-4bd4-84e3-0eabc7f81fb1-0
00:05:55.480 --> 00:05:59.400
And so I was sort of encouraged to not
hold back really.

1f674429-d721-42d0-943e-4770fb87ecc7-0
00:05:59.640 --> 00:06:00.080
OK.

daba313e-e5ba-4a71-a03c-cf3664feeab5-0
00:06:00.200 --> 00:06:03.840
But one of the other writers,
Ursula Dubisaski, is a kids writer.

d1448383-a003-4ea1-86af-a037595411c2-0
00:06:03.840 --> 00:06:07.482
And so her story has a really different
kind of tone that is, you know,

d1448383-a003-4ea1-86af-a037595411c2-1
00:06:07.482 --> 00:06:09.000
probably more age appropriate.

135ad42f-9dbd-4081-84b2-368f69389715-0
00:06:09.240 --> 00:06:14.920
But it's I also think that just kids can
handle a lot more than we think they can.

20756a4b-06ff-49f4-a45b-54c561f23034-0
00:06:14.920 --> 00:06:17.449
Well,
Hansel and Gretel in it's a original form

20756a4b-06ff-49f4-a45b-54c561f23034-1
00:06:17.449 --> 00:06:18.240
is pretty dark.

763dbf60-46d3-46fc-8d25-3cc71c605cd9-0
00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:20.040
It's a very brutal story.

e0799e34-6fc7-4cbb-a8cb-773352647782-0
00:06:20.040 --> 00:06:21.560
There is cannibalism in it.

d78a3687-f0ea-4148-a3b5-465f23963ac5-0
00:06:21.560 --> 00:06:22.880
I didn't make that up.

cbd0bdbf-b723-4685-9c6e-6c88c016242c-0
00:06:23.320 --> 00:06:28.407
But I also know that a lot of kids
already do handle a lot more than they

cbd0bdbf-b723-4685-9c6e-6c88c016242c-1
00:06:28.407 --> 00:06:29.920
have to in this world.

a3138c56-1b4f-4525-ad1a-71242ea41c73-0
00:06:29.920 --> 00:06:32.467
Like,
people are dealing with poverty and

a3138c56-1b4f-4525-ad1a-71242ea41c73-1
00:06:32.467 --> 00:06:33.680
hunger all the time.

2deb101f-bf15-4959-bd6c-3e8916a8a09a-0
00:06:33.680 --> 00:06:38.654
People are dealing with families and
landlords causing trouble in their lives

2deb101f-bf15-4959-bd6c-3e8916a8a09a-1
00:06:38.654 --> 00:06:40.440
and, you know, homelessness.

7ecb233e-9214-4c79-a85a-c9326c6e0704-0
00:06:40.440 --> 00:06:44.235
And we shouldn't live in a society where
those things are happening,

7ecb233e-9214-4c79-a85a-c9326c6e0704-1
00:06:44.235 --> 00:06:47.920
but they are happening and kids know
about them experiencing them.

ff2230a8-788f-4871-8d34-0012f7db1b75-0
00:06:48.360 --> 00:06:50.639
So I wanted to speak to those kids as
well,

ff2230a8-788f-4871-8d34-0012f7db1b75-1
00:06:50.639 --> 00:06:54.680
the kids who needed a story like this,
where those kids get to be the heroes.

d5ce2d92-bf97-4309-a226-2bc5cd1e7830-0
00:06:54.880 --> 00:06:55.320
That's it.

fa5087cd-07d9-4a43-b8ce-d09a1f8a7fee-0
00:06:55.320 --> 00:06:56.160
Like there is a level.

bbc7f8fe-afd7-47d9-8b56-7df0c49f1d20-0
00:06:56.160 --> 00:06:59.340
And we were talking with one of the other
authors about this,

bbc7f8fe-afd7-47d9-8b56-7df0c49f1d20-1
00:06:59.340 --> 00:07:02.880
of release that comes with being able to
experience that as fiction.

858ebb61-d861-4022-9939-a56d4b84ffef-0
00:07:03.080 --> 00:07:05.836
And even though it's dark and even though
it's hard,

858ebb61-d861-4022-9939-a56d4b84ffef-1
00:07:05.836 --> 00:07:09.632
it comes with this sense of like,
release that you've been able to think

858ebb61-d861-4022-9939-a56d4b84ffef-2
00:07:09.632 --> 00:07:11.400
about and talk about in a Safeway.

21983ee6-fbc2-4dea-bf5a-8203a7e183df-0
00:07:11.440 --> 00:07:11.840
Yeah.

cace426a-c211-4f83-9540-2d9a34d74914-0
00:07:11.840 --> 00:07:14.680
And I think that's part of the the fairy
tale form as well.

09d5489e-b06e-4f44-8a30-509a142bac66-0
00:07:14.680 --> 00:07:18.676
Like really dark things can happen,
but you returned safely to your own

09d5489e-b06e-4f44-8a30-509a142bac66-1
00:07:18.676 --> 00:07:19.120
reality.

b5ae03da-47c4-4150-a4f9-6079f1dea811-0
00:07:19.200 --> 00:07:19.640
That's it.

2a9216f9-492d-4e4f-a686-705ae75a195d-0
00:07:20.240 --> 00:07:23.005
I think as well, like, you know,
when we think of fairy tales,

2a9216f9-492d-4e4f-a686-705ae75a195d-1
00:07:23.005 --> 00:07:23.840
we think of morals.

7c9b1fba-5aa7-4bb7-a7f5-d9871754538a-0
00:07:24.120 --> 00:07:27.520
So we did you work to kind of avoid the
moral.

9964b92d-c08f-435a-a18b-3599567ee285-0
00:07:27.520 --> 00:07:30.080
Were you working into that moral view?

a6d6ec4b-8657-41fb-9b69-9eb040054a1a-0
00:07:30.080 --> 00:07:33.360
Like how did you treat that aspect of
storytelling?

43558a6b-edb6-401f-b194-958ce06cba45-0
00:07:33.560 --> 00:07:36.440
I didn't think too much about morality.

5c3f2d02-d3ac-491c-8d90-e68f60d9109b-0
00:07:36.440 --> 00:07:40.560
I thought a lot about responsibility and
our relationship to nature.

3cc7c8f4-fbea-419a-9c73-19c1e81bf8c8-0
00:07:41.080 --> 00:07:43.640
So the story is set in a kind of.

224106cc-4755-431e-8de1-52417301bfc6-0
00:07:43.640 --> 00:07:49.031
When the enclosure of the natural world
is just beginning and the peasants is

224106cc-4755-431e-8de1-52417301bfc6-1
00:07:49.031 --> 00:07:52.280
there cutting down trees,
removing the forest.

1a1e13b4-6c74-4896-bb54-0ad00ef66b54-0
00:07:52.280 --> 00:07:54.692
And I was thinking about the climate
emergency,

1a1e13b4-6c74-4896-bb54-0ad00ef66b54-1
00:07:54.692 --> 00:07:57.960
which is another really massive thing
that kids have to do with.

c454ca0d-8395-426a-ac84-6234bc57cc5a-0
00:07:58.360 --> 00:07:59.320
They shouldn't have to.

5422691b-1559-4006-b699-64cc1d796675-0
00:07:59.880 --> 00:08:05.293
I wanted to tell a story that would help
people to navigate that by taking it back

5422691b-1559-4006-b699-64cc1d796675-1
00:08:05.293 --> 00:08:08.814
to a place where decisions could be made
differently,

5422691b-1559-4006-b699-64cc1d796675-2
00:08:08.814 --> 00:08:11.880
I suppose about real relationship with
nature.

fba5c17d-7a93-415f-9b48-98638f9a63e4-0
00:08:12.160 --> 00:08:18.480
But I also just wanted it to be fun and
like, a bit scary, but also awesome.

943f1787-93b7-45dc-8b78-885fc36783cf-0
00:08:18.600 --> 00:08:21.240
Like, awesome fun kind of magic.

411d1b6a-125b-487f-b580-d5e3479ae2de-0
00:08:21.240 --> 00:08:25.826
And so I have that in mind more than the
moral kind of instruction just to

411d1b6a-125b-487f-b580-d5e3479ae2de-1
00:08:25.826 --> 00:08:27.600
entertain pure entertainment.

eed48247-1d0b-4a45-858d-cda8ccce0c5e-0
00:08:27.760 --> 00:08:28.040
Yeah.

dd8bdcd5-3269-4031-985a-01146b5469e3-0
00:08:28.120 --> 00:08:30.240
And I think that stuff kind of comes out
anyway.

f394fec2-704c-4f25-95fc-f6011271dc10-0
00:08:30.240 --> 00:08:33.073
Like when you're a writer,
you have your own values and they emerge

f394fec2-704c-4f25-95fc-f6011271dc10-1
00:08:33.073 --> 00:08:35.240
through your work,
whether you want them to or not.

02e89cbd-b369-4ddd-be10-945656dceb4d-0
00:08:35.560 --> 00:08:40.673
They they're transparent most of the time
because it's your worldview and you can't

02e89cbd-b369-4ddd-be10-945656dceb4d-1
00:08:40.673 --> 00:08:41.160
help it.

b0e11529-495b-410b-9079-e8fb5c2220b2-0
00:08:41.160 --> 00:08:44.960
So I just trust that that stuff will will
be there and get through.

425c3887-e362-45f3-80dd-6ce197b2bce4-0
00:08:45.160 --> 00:08:49.400
And you talked about being involved in or
seeing the process kind of take shape.

42c16fff-d225-47d7-9ff2-7806f3934ade-0
00:08:49.600 --> 00:08:53.063
Were you also able to see the finished
product and see the kids reaction to the

42c16fff-d225-47d7-9ff2-7806f3934ade-1
00:08:53.063 --> 00:08:53.800
finished product?

1012798a-c9ad-4303-bc34-7c7103598309-0
00:08:53.800 --> 00:08:55.000
Was that what you expected?

700c34e2-3436-4837-8376-b3d26cd155b6-0
00:08:55.000 --> 00:09:00.344
So this year the three plays were staged
as part of the Adelaide Festival and they

700c34e2-3436-4837-8376-b3d26cd155b6-1
00:09:00.344 --> 00:09:05.174
built a bespoke building for this
production which can be packed down into

700c34e2-3436-4837-8376-b3d26cd155b6-2
00:09:05.174 --> 00:09:10.261
a shipping container for easy transport
because they wanted to create a carbon

700c34e2-3436-4837-8376-b3d26cd155b6-3
00:09:10.261 --> 00:09:12.000
neutral theatre production.

aa54613f-081e-482e-b668-ac3f256568e3-0
00:09:12.280 --> 00:09:16.560
So they're really working to their values
as a company.

7af9c240-e593-4cc4-9df8-3ba06baec23e-0
00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:21.579
And so I was lucky enough to go and see
all three plays and they were just

7af9c240-e593-4cc4-9df8-3ba06baec23e-1
00:09:21.579 --> 00:09:23.040
beautiful, so magical.

44111a3b-cea6-4ad6-a44d-4af9ece3ed37-0
00:09:23.240 --> 00:09:24.240
And it's incredible.

d904e7a6-cd97-44bc-b34e-97b09652f8ff-0
00:09:24.240 --> 00:09:27.488
When you're a writer,
you sort of work on your own a lot,

d904e7a6-cd97-44bc-b34e-97b09652f8ff-1
00:09:27.488 --> 00:09:30.904
but to have this,
all of these different artists brought in,

d904e7a6-cd97-44bc-b34e-97b09652f8ff-2
00:09:30.904 --> 00:09:34.992
like the designers, the actors,
the musician who composed music for each

d904e7a6-cd97-44bc-b34e-97b09652f8ff-3
00:09:34.992 --> 00:09:35.440
of them.

7e144a54-b542-49c3-a969-7cc55bc69494-0
00:09:35.560 --> 00:09:39.007
And they're all like really different
worlds,

7e144a54-b542-49c3-a969-7cc55bc69494-1
00:09:39.007 --> 00:09:43.280
but done with similar materials and the
same exact room.

3a671b18-c47c-48c2-8396-d1db26f91ebd-0
00:09:43.920 --> 00:09:45.920
And it was just incredible to see.

92263e79-39e2-48d8-9bb8-d22e69d757e4-0
00:09:46.040 --> 00:09:48.690
It's incredible to me,
like the investment that must have gone

92263e79-39e2-48d8-9bb8-d22e69d757e4-1
00:09:48.690 --> 00:09:51.720
into this and all the different artists
and bringing them all together.

34d1a833-1c3e-4b23-85dc-572ba0e26de4-0
00:09:51.720 --> 00:09:54.600
So who was behind creating this?

cc37747c-8468-4ed1-af3c-a8d674fc599b-0
00:09:55.080 --> 00:10:00.440
So Slingsby has been operating in
Adelaide for the 19 years.

7d00b1be-413b-40b3-a259-d2067e95491e-0
00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:02.360
This is actually their final production.

5e218d85-fa6c-430d-b3ae-172e8c1c6559-0
00:10:02.360 --> 00:10:07.254
They're closing up as a company partly
because funding is so difficult,

5e218d85-fa6c-430d-b3ae-172e8c1c6559-1
00:10:07.254 --> 00:10:12.760
but also I think they wanted to end on a
high and close out on a beautiful note.

179ae183-7e73-4eef-9d09-57cfca8f7dca-0
00:10:13.080 --> 00:10:18.354
So it was a big responsibility to write
for this in terms of that company's

179ae183-7e73-4eef-9d09-57cfca8f7dca-1
00:10:18.354 --> 00:10:18.840
legacy.

cdcbcf18-d472-4cc1-9817-ac49a42428cb-0
00:10:19.080 --> 00:10:22.079
But yeah,
they're funded through various structures

cdcbcf18-d472-4cc1-9817-ac49a42428cb-1
00:10:22.079 --> 00:10:26.637
like state and federal funding and also a
lot of donations and subscribers and

cdcbcf18-d472-4cc1-9817-ac49a42428cb-2
00:10:26.637 --> 00:10:27.560
stuff like that.

de683fe8-c58f-405c-9725-6c41fd7c3bd3-0
00:10:27.560 --> 00:10:29.280
So tickets, yeah.

5da74234-a706-4200-94ca-c27418a4c0d5-0
00:10:29.360 --> 00:10:30.960
And you mentioned your work as a novelist.

0b438edb-9538-4486-9a15-f1ae7214410c-0
00:10:31.040 --> 00:10:33.800
Do you explore the same kinds of themes
in your novels?

3f0246fa-cf45-45e9-a701-ef52f2fc7efe-0
00:10:33.920 --> 00:10:34.960
Yeah, definitely.

57c425f7-127e-44b3-a071-8396c2702085-0
00:10:34.960 --> 00:10:40.041
I'm pretty focused on the climate
emergency and the shifts that need to

57c425f7-127e-44b3-a071-8396c2702085-1
00:10:40.041 --> 00:10:43.428
take place,
which we're really not doing at the

57c425f7-127e-44b3-a071-8396c2702085-2
00:10:43.428 --> 00:10:44.840
moment as a species.

ae00e30b-d76b-4bce-a474-830b665f5b26-0
00:10:44.840 --> 00:10:50.586
We're not self correcting and we're going
to keep running up into kind of natural

ae00e30b-d76b-4bce-a474-830b665f5b26-1
00:10:50.586 --> 00:10:53.320
disasters and crises of our own making.

cca43daa-f8da-4343-91be-67ce362b002d-0
00:10:53.320 --> 00:10:57.297
So last year in SA,
we had an algal bloom that was partly

cca43daa-f8da-4343-91be-67ce362b002d-1
00:10:57.297 --> 00:11:01.342
caused by the condition,
conditions related to the climate

cca43daa-f8da-4343-91be-67ce362b002d-2
00:11:01.342 --> 00:11:04.565
emergency,
which include the wind and currents

cca43daa-f8da-4343-91be-67ce362b002d-3
00:11:04.565 --> 00:11:09.228
slowing down, very hot days,
very hot still days and the algae just

cca43daa-f8da-4343-91be-67ce362b002d-4
00:11:09.228 --> 00:11:13.000
kind of bloomed because of that,
killed a lot of fish.

1bf2c0f3-0a1e-441b-af25-a96a80af161b-0
00:11:13.560 --> 00:11:17.800
So these are the things that are kind of
in my world that are surrounding me.

152ed22b-e59f-455f-b9fc-dfc57efcdb23-0
00:11:17.800 --> 00:11:20.612
But I also,
I wrote a book a few years ago called

152ed22b-e59f-455f-b9fc-dfc57efcdb23-1
00:11:20.612 --> 00:11:23.481
Discronia,
in which the sea retreats and the beach

152ed22b-e59f-455f-b9fc-dfc57efcdb23-2
00:11:23.481 --> 00:11:25.000
is covered in dead animals.

eded068e-4508-48ac-a3b8-fc139946b636-0
00:11:25.320 --> 00:11:28.556
And so when the algal bloom happened,
I kept getting these text messages from

eded068e-4508-48ac-a3b8-fc139946b636-1
00:11:28.556 --> 00:11:30.880
people saying your book came true,
your book came true.

541089fd-e873-4ca7-942c-b9c1af706b6b-0
00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:32.560
It's like, it's not my fault.

9a635dc8-8171-4b57-83da-353fd4d924bd-0
00:11:33.480 --> 00:11:37.393
But I think as a writer,
I'm really moved by these kind of images

9a635dc8-8171-4b57-83da-353fd4d924bd-1
00:11:37.393 --> 00:11:40.240
of uncanny nature and uncannyness in the
world.

c791c76f-fd0f-400f-a559-2665f158481f-0
00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:44.720
And so that's my sort of angle where I
keep returning to salvage.

2131066a-5296-4e83-93fd-b3d3664a0934-0
00:11:44.720 --> 00:11:49.269
My last novel is set in the near future,
and it's about space billionaires,

2131066a-5296-4e83-93fd-b3d3664a0934-1
00:11:49.269 --> 00:11:53.520
but the space billionaires are sort of
fairly peripheral to the story.

113226d0-54e1-4e35-b358-14b7a6f1f7ff-0
00:11:53.520 --> 00:11:59.664
So there's two sisters and one escapes to
a space station and the other stays on

113226d0-54e1-4e35-b358-14b7a6f1f7ff-1
00:11:59.664 --> 00:12:00.120
Earth.

0ca9093d-5bc7-466d-89e6-14559b42a368-0
00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:04.280
And so it's sort of the mostly the one
that stays on Earth's life.

74fa1bfa-d923-4b95-b1a9-9e44b0d1f7fc-0
00:12:05.400 --> 00:12:08.533
How do you find like you're obviously
writing about these big themes and I

74fa1bfa-d923-4b95-b1a9-9e44b0d1f7fc-1
00:12:08.533 --> 00:12:10.080
imagine you're very interested in it.

c2345841-2426-414a-a3ce-fe389e37b65d-0
00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:13.680
So it suggests that it's something that
maybe you find distressing as well.

17e851e5-2cb4-4443-bd62-27daed5ad41a-0
00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:18.870
So to immerse yourself in these ideas and
spend so long thinking about them and

17e851e5-2cb4-4443-bd62-27daed5ad41a-1
00:12:18.870 --> 00:12:22.341
writing about them,
do you find that that soothes you or

17e851e5-2cb4-4443-bd62-27daed5ad41a-2
00:12:22.341 --> 00:12:26.360
feels like a release of those worries or
does it feed it as well?

79a66186-6a03-425f-8986-0b6a5b1dada5-0
00:12:26.440 --> 00:12:30.840
I am really anti putting my head in the
sand.

4fe89a0e-8778-4ef6-838b-424acd0da76f-0
00:12:31.080 --> 00:12:33.640
Generally in life, I like to face things.

afae6367-47e1-4270-a270-936aad82b45d-0
00:12:33.960 --> 00:12:38.744
I think that information power,
and I do find it very soothing to to

afae6367-47e1-4270-a270-936aad82b45d-1
00:12:38.744 --> 00:12:40.200
think things through.

d025d115-6fc8-45aa-a96b-8bc55c62972b-0
00:12:40.200 --> 00:12:43.176
And it's not necessarily because I find
the answer,

d025d115-6fc8-45aa-a96b-8bc55c62972b-1
00:12:43.176 --> 00:12:47.926
it's because I feel better informed and I
can make better decisions and I can have

d025d115-6fc8-45aa-a96b-8bc55c62972b-2
00:12:47.926 --> 00:12:51.360
conversations with people and we can
learn from each other.

9bea2826-f7ae-4881-93ea-e49bf1402694-0
00:12:51.520 --> 00:12:53.996
And as a writer,
I think you have a bit of a

9bea2826-f7ae-4881-93ea-e49bf1402694-1
00:12:53.996 --> 00:12:58.289
responsibility in terms of what stories
you tell and where they come from and

9bea2826-f7ae-4881-93ea-e49bf1402694-2
00:12:58.289 --> 00:12:59.720
what they do in the world.

acda189f-6903-43de-aa8f-546b6eb228fa-0
00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:03.823
I don't know if it's a responsibility or
a curse,

acda189f-6903-43de-aa8f-546b6eb228fa-1
00:13:03.823 --> 00:13:09.453
but I do feel like fiction kind of
carries that emotional weight for people

acda189f-6903-43de-aa8f-546b6eb228fa-2
00:13:09.453 --> 00:13:10.120
in a way.

683fd9a9-ec0d-488d-96d0-b6b5f051ebe4-0
00:13:10.120 --> 00:13:13.480
And you're right,
like stories are quite cathartic.

a1a8e4d3-c092-4d7f-8a87-031c0af3e807-0
00:13:13.800 --> 00:13:16.610
And I want,
I want my books to be meaningful to

a1a8e4d3-c092-4d7f-8a87-031c0af3e807-1
00:13:16.610 --> 00:13:17.840
people who read them.

c7369cd8-371f-404f-91b2-65f2156e901f-0
00:13:17.840 --> 00:13:21.196
I don't want them to just be some
disposable rubbish that could be

c7369cd8-371f-404f-91b2-65f2156e901f-1
00:13:21.196 --> 00:13:23.000
generated by a large language model.

e80d8ce2-e93f-41a3-951c-87e0bd9eee13-0
00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:25.280
You know, it's a human to human contact.

a82b7962-34ce-4ba3-987c-02795aaf3722-0
00:13:25.280 --> 00:13:26.320
Yes, absolutely.

9f3e6217-f9da-44f1-ac3e-ad150a479af4-0
00:13:26.400 --> 00:13:28.510
You know,
you want to create something beautiful

9f3e6217-f9da-44f1-ac3e-ad150a479af4-1
00:13:28.510 --> 00:13:29.200
and awesome fun.

13687e61-5290-4499-a1c9-5518f95c67fa-0
00:13:29.200 --> 00:13:31.960
But also something that helps in some way.

8dfa323a-3c57-4533-8912-31fcc904d060-0
00:13:32.320 --> 00:13:36.280
So you see your role as a writer as
helping other people and communicating

8dfa323a-3c57-4533-8912-31fcc904d060-1
00:13:36.280 --> 00:13:37.600
and sharing that message.

39b550a1-e64a-440c-8575-b122c20a3697-0
00:13:37.600 --> 00:13:39.000
I don't think that's my role as a writer.

9afc258e-2f90-4787-82af-53c395f70a37-0
00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:40.800
I think that's just who I am as a person.

1bfbb554-29a4-4851-9aba-95161d22eb6b-0
00:13:40.800 --> 00:13:42.680
Like I just like to be useful in the
world.

c7895841-55ae-45aa-a327-3dbea0ad8e6a-0
00:13:42.680 --> 00:13:46.280
It's how my life has value, I feel like.

1afe4d02-676c-44ea-b73b-7c1422367610-0
00:13:46.280 --> 00:13:48.800
So you mentioned obviously the climate
emergency.

aa9eb4bb-9f9e-48e8-ae1c-c06817673a1f-0
00:13:49.040 --> 00:13:53.893
I feel like the public discourse on that
has maybe regressed in the last five

aa9eb4bb-9f9e-48e8-ae1c-c06817673a1f-1
00:13:53.893 --> 00:13:54.640
years or so.

382a4fff-9185-4fbb-8fcf-c49be7b7a177-0
00:13:54.880 --> 00:13:58.364
And some of those images that you
mentioned that feature in your books

382a4fff-9185-4fbb-8fcf-c49be7b7a177-1
00:13:58.364 --> 00:14:01.800
around the the dead animals washing up,
there's very powerful images.

47bb7014-bd87-4856-93b9-b92c084f52ef-0
00:14:01.800 --> 00:14:05.323
Do you have any hope that things will
change in the future and that action will

47bb7014-bd87-4856-93b9-b92c084f52ef-1
00:14:05.323 --> 00:14:05.720
be taken?

e3e017e8-90a9-44cd-97fc-bda60efef04a-0
00:14:06.080 --> 00:14:07.160
Yeah, absolutely.

11edd4cc-f363-4bdd-a8ea-fd19fcad153d-0
00:14:07.160 --> 00:14:10.400
And the thing that gives me hope is that
people are taking action now.

e3a97682-aa31-468e-a141-10b2c57b9cc0-0
00:14:11.040 --> 00:14:15.766
So I think one of the reasons that we've
retreated a bit from addressing the

e3a97682-aa31-468e-a141-10b2c57b9cc0-1
00:14:15.766 --> 00:14:20.800
climate crisis is because of the pandemic
was such a system shock to the culture.

086e1e87-3264-4870-b726-7806a8f22239-0
00:14:21.160 --> 00:14:25.040
And it's sort of how this compound crisis
operates.

1b16d447-2e7a-405f-9093-7a5a2ec6213c-0
00:14:25.320 --> 00:14:29.253
So things become difficult and then
they're compounded on the last difficult

1b16d447-2e7a-405f-9093-7a5a2ec6213c-1
00:14:29.253 --> 00:14:29.560
thing.

a52ae728-8c75-432c-a8e9-5ff42ffffa83-0
00:14:29.560 --> 00:14:34.080
And then these crises get closer together
and more difficult to solve.

134b73cb-0a1d-41d6-97ce-8c17d61b525f-0
00:14:34.080 --> 00:14:37.200
And then you end up in this sort of
emergency mindset.

02c73e17-3f49-4d05-bbb7-843ee31b658f-0
00:14:37.520 --> 00:14:40.400
And so that actually changes the way that
you think.

8b360107-132b-40fe-9bf1-4746429e2271-0
00:14:40.400 --> 00:14:42.440
It changes how you operate.

d6af40c0-52e8-49d0-8e3b-d182cb836089-0
00:14:42.520 --> 00:14:46.288
It can make you more selfish,
It can make you shut down and not want to

d6af40c0-52e8-49d0-8e3b-d182cb836089-1
00:14:46.288 --> 00:14:47.440
think about the world.

a7cd0180-3087-4e1b-b9ff-aa1b4af77ca6-0
00:14:47.440 --> 00:14:50.118
I mean,
I open the news and I look at pictures of

a7cd0180-3087-4e1b-b9ff-aa1b4af77ca6-1
00:14:50.118 --> 00:14:53.064
Gaza and I don't want to think about the
world either,

a7cd0180-3087-4e1b-b9ff-aa1b4af77ca6-2
00:14:53.064 --> 00:14:56.600
but I have a choice to switch that off
and a lot of people don't.

4126f42b-de38-493a-a687-2711c47af073-0
00:14:57.040 --> 00:15:00.925
The things that make me feel optimistic
is how many people are thinking and

4126f42b-de38-493a-a687-2711c47af073-1
00:15:00.925 --> 00:15:02.920
writing and taking action about it now.

0c37022e-8a4d-498f-90a3-fde4b759c4c3-0
00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:06.911
And especially young people,
like all of the schools strike for

0c37022e-8a4d-498f-90a3-fde4b759c4c3-1
00:15:06.911 --> 00:15:11.343
climate stuff and the actions that have
happened in Newcastle in recent years,

0c37022e-8a4d-498f-90a3-fde4b759c4c3-2
00:15:11.343 --> 00:15:15.440
shutting down the coal port and stuff
have been really inspiring for me.

8250c31f-a16b-42f2-bdd7-846fb8032e25-0
00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:17.200
So keep doing that stuff everybody.

9b9e1a8d-f7d0-4189-b962-10ce8b964629-0
00:15:17.200 --> 00:15:17.520
Excellent.

5465f4a1-be64-41b6-8777-07c5979b6bab-0
00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:20.480
All right, Well,
it was lovely speaking to you.

2640b189-cece-41d4-9e30-1204b62b7af7-0
00:15:20.880 --> 00:15:23.280
Thank you so much for having me on with
your panel.

f04100a2-8830-48f2-a703-299c3dfe28b0-0
00:15:23.440 --> 00:15:24.000
Cheers.

d946a780-a37b-4adc-a0a2-5b829de14900-0
00:15:26.360 --> 00:15:29.893
This has been a special presentation of
the Not Quite Right podcast in

d946a780-a37b-4adc-a0a2-5b829de14900-1
00:15:29.893 --> 00:15:32.680
collaboration with Words on the Waves
Writers Festival.

05b0dab1-9326-4fa1-a695-f061a939ece5-0
00:15:33.080 --> 00:15:36.653
Check the show notes For more information
about Words on the Waves and the books

05b0dab1-9326-4fa1-a695-f061a939ece5-1
00:15:36.653 --> 00:15:37.800
mentioned in this episode.

9bf9e5bc-ba07-40e6-aa39-8d922d8fabaa-0
00:15:38.160 --> 00:15:41.135
If you're new to the podcast,
please join us again for our regular

9bf9e5bc-ba07-40e6-aa39-8d922d8fabaa-1
00:15:41.135 --> 00:15:44.200
episodes where we talk about media,
culture, and the art of writing.