WEBVTT

15cb98c2-7e1c-436b-b7a9-9181ac4efbbf-0
00:00:13.280 --> 00:00:14.880
Something doesn't seem quite right.

bfb4f5ca-0032-4af8-a3ce-007d43fe9b98-0
00:00:16.560 --> 00:00:17.600
Welcome to Not Quite Right.

fdf9b446-1f5e-4bf2-8021-1d144ab3828e-0
00:00:17.600 --> 00:00:19.000
My name's Ed, and I'm Amanda.

6cb1dd2a-47c8-42ab-9bf3-40f9e80e4924-0
00:00:19.280 --> 00:00:21.040
We're here at Words on the Waves.

e7eed638-6fbc-47a8-81ce-b33953b6fcca-0
00:00:21.200 --> 00:00:25.813
And today we have an interview with
Darren Ricks and Craig Cormack,

e7eed638-6fbc-47a8-81ce-b33953b6fcca-1
00:00:25.813 --> 00:00:28.120
and they are the authors of Warra.

43c0aa28-0bfd-476a-ad64-4fbb4d3f3bac-0
00:00:28.120 --> 00:00:28.440
Warra.

3e303b25-fbcb-443c-a1aa-d684ed0c886f-0
00:00:28.440 --> 00:00:28.920
Why?

744edb0c-a4ef-4bdc-a3d5-2d05f05e452e-0
00:00:29.200 --> 00:00:31.296
And when you look at the cover of this
book,

744edb0c-a4ef-4bdc-a3d5-2d05f05e452e-1
00:00:31.296 --> 00:00:33.720
it's absolutely plastered in little award
stickers.

6d2e57a0-2597-40dd-8965-ac22ff6f1998-0
00:00:33.720 --> 00:00:33.920
Yeah.

2e4f3b17-d922-4813-9ac0-3fe536d62e04-0
00:00:33.920 --> 00:00:34.320
Right.

1950046f-27f7-4713-a163-8a321b6a3001-0
00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:35.080
So wine bottle.

c8df8c6c-0a76-4f95-8a13-ebfd6267380f-0
00:00:35.080 --> 00:00:35.320
Yeah.

8ade7935-1800-4b2b-ae3d-8985199bcb2a-0
00:00:35.320 --> 00:00:36.440
It looks like a wine bottle.

cab46679-e4ff-4f46-93aa-c0193b98a361-0
00:00:36.440 --> 00:00:39.480
It's been critically acclaimed,
and this is a fascinating concept.

c9ef4dc9-bd71-4244-bff4-eb94aea5e5fb-0
00:00:39.480 --> 00:00:44.455
They went up and down the Australian
coast and visited all of the places that

c9ef4dc9-bd71-4244-bff4-eb94aea5e5fb-1
00:00:44.455 --> 00:00:49.240
Captain Cook when at the time of
organisation and spoke to the communities

c9ef4dc9-bd71-4244-bff4-eb94aea5e5fb-2
00:00:49.240 --> 00:00:54.280
there about what had been passed down as
their stories and their oral history.

011d26b9-738a-42ad-aa3e-320e375326a6-0
00:00:54.320 --> 00:00:57.367
And I suppose from an Australian history
point of view,

011d26b9-738a-42ad-aa3e-320e375326a6-1
00:00:57.367 --> 00:01:01.502
perhaps one of the first times we're
hearing some of these stories from the

011d26b9-738a-42ad-aa3e-320e375326a6-2
00:01:01.502 --> 00:01:04.223
Indigenous communities about that period
of time,

011d26b9-738a-42ad-aa3e-320e375326a6-3
00:01:04.223 --> 00:01:07.760
what most children in Australia have been
taught was settlement.

9dc13ac4-ba84-474e-a8ad-699d09de8222-0
00:01:07.760 --> 00:01:12.833
So we spoke to them about that experience
and here is our conversation with Darren

9dc13ac4-ba84-474e-a8ad-699d09de8222-1
00:01:12.833 --> 00:01:14.240
Ricks and Craig Cormac.

41e22b68-9ec7-480a-a456-b239771e1127-0
00:01:17.600 --> 00:01:20.298
Well,
we're here at Words on the Waves with

41e22b68-9ec7-480a-a456-b239771e1127-1
00:01:20.298 --> 00:01:22.200
Darren Ricks and Craig Cormack.

35e7804f-7c93-468a-975c-bd7d3586e123-0
00:01:22.480 --> 00:01:23.480
Nice to meet you both.

c9f1ac7a-efb0-48ef-8e01-1d8767cad095-0
00:01:23.680 --> 00:01:24.240
How are you?

a255d035-8a80-4f7b-930f-85e168303dbb-0
00:01:24.240 --> 00:01:28.553
And you're about to go into your panel or
your discussion on how Indigenous

a255d035-8a80-4f7b-930f-85e168303dbb-1
00:01:28.553 --> 00:01:32.640
Australians discovered Captain Cook,
which is a very provocative title.

6a38c232-d518-4df0-862d-5b886264e0ae-0
00:01:33.080 --> 00:01:36.164
And you're here to talk about your book
that you've worked on together called

6a38c232-d518-4df0-862d-5b886264e0ae-1
00:01:36.164 --> 00:01:36.560
Wara Wara.

34a7cd70-bffc-4c82-9ca5-fe5422007180-0
00:01:36.560 --> 00:01:37.080
Why?

078d7c3f-651f-409d-9630-dad4525d520b-0
00:01:37.600 --> 00:01:38.840
Tell us a little bit about that.

baec408b-53d4-46e8-9ab5-4b031546d5d9-0
00:01:39.320 --> 00:01:42.418
So the concept of the book was began
fairly simple,

baec408b-53d4-46e8-9ab5-4b031546d5d9-1
00:01:42.418 --> 00:01:46.826
which was let's look at the places
Captain Cook named and find their real

baec408b-53d4-46e8-9ab5-4b031546d5d9-2
00:01:46.826 --> 00:01:49.567
names,
find original names and the story goes

baec408b-53d4-46e8-9ab5-4b031546d5d9-3
00:01:49.567 --> 00:01:53.440
that you know Michelangelo when he's
paint the sister in Chapel.

8584523e-b49a-4ceb-9d49-c26702aad9c5-0
00:01:53.440 --> 00:01:56.494
He supposedly said, yeah,
I've just put an Angel on each corner and

8584523e-b49a-4ceb-9d49-c26702aad9c5-1
00:01:56.494 --> 00:01:59.280
then added and added three years later he
was still up there.

037cccb9-8425-49e1-be66-d6d1d7079304-0
00:01:59.280 --> 00:02:01.160
So the book was a little bit like that.

01abfe0e-cad9-4f19-8099-7e7075de3abb-0
00:02:01.160 --> 00:02:04.391
We grew and grew and grew,
but in the end we travelled the whole

01abfe0e-cad9-4f19-8099-7e7075de3abb-1
00:02:04.391 --> 00:02:07.025
East Coast of Australia from the bottom
of Victoria,

01abfe0e-cad9-4f19-8099-7e7075de3abb-2
00:02:07.025 --> 00:02:10.803
right up the Torres Strait Islands and
collected all these stories from MOB

01abfe0e-cad9-4f19-8099-7e7075de3abb-3
00:02:10.803 --> 00:02:14.880
about either Cook or colonisation or what
had happened at contact and settlement.

2ea2f4a3-bfed-4a82-a477-3762136c80a9-0
00:02:15.280 --> 00:02:17.658
And, you know, a lot of mobs said to us,
they said, yeah, yeah, yeah,

2ea2f4a3-bfed-4a82-a477-3762136c80a9-1
00:02:17.658 --> 00:02:18.440
we've got a cook story.

8cd1d2a0-2f1f-4983-80b4-4c886996762e-0
00:02:18.440 --> 00:02:18.760
Yeah, yeah.

76ffb0e5-4360-4579-8361-b6ced9e37010-0
00:02:19.200 --> 00:02:22.360
But what we really want to talk about is
truth telling.

fc3879bb-3fbc-4d14-ab6a-1ea9860f09f4-0
00:02:22.440 --> 00:02:24.760
We want to tell you about what happened
to our mob in the early days.

1d3d7748-d480-40c7-be70-56e41ce12ef9-0
00:02:24.760 --> 00:02:27.688
Well, so, you know, a lot of people,
their history have never really been

1d3d7748-d480-40c7-be70-56e41ce12ef9-1
00:02:27.688 --> 00:02:28.440
recorded this week.

6db91c45-252f-46f3-ad1e-823f8605be62-0
00:02:28.680 --> 00:02:30.400
So the stories were quite amazing.

205bb1f5-5d54-4897-af3b-9dd6a45855a2-0
00:02:30.640 --> 00:02:34.157
So you had the experience of those
stories coming up for the first time

205bb1f5-5d54-4897-af3b-9dd6a45855a2-1
00:02:34.157 --> 00:02:38.017
maybe and have been discussed in those
communities but never actually surfaced

205bb1f5-5d54-4897-af3b-9dd6a45855a2-2
00:02:38.017 --> 00:02:38.360
before.

88b676b9-3753-45e0-9285-ad1a7b89de94-0
00:02:38.360 --> 00:02:41.160
This is the first time they're they're
coming to light for a wider view.

34588d80-da53-4d75-9c00-189470759c76-0
00:02:41.240 --> 00:02:42.120
Yeah, that's right.

b8ae5a79-8ce3-4c18-b031-610f3638c949-0
00:02:42.440 --> 00:02:46.680
A lot of them were handed down for a
generation, a generation.

f8323f54-091b-475b-85f1-a34b79234ff0-0
00:02:46.960 --> 00:02:51.943
So a lot of them held their stories for
100 years, maybe 150,

f8323f54-091b-475b-85f1-a34b79234ff0-1
00:02:51.943 --> 00:02:58.695
and ended up telling us their stories and
about their lands and how they were taken

f8323f54-091b-475b-85f1-a34b79234ff0-2
00:02:58.695 --> 00:03:05.045
off their land and brought back onto
their country and how they had to relearn

f8323f54-091b-475b-85f1-a34b79234ff0-3
00:03:05.045 --> 00:03:09.305
their Dreamtime stories, some lines,
food gathering,

f8323f54-091b-475b-85f1-a34b79234ff0-4
00:03:09.305 --> 00:03:12.279
everything within Aboriginal society.

966cdb49-2741-4db9-969a-ef4e45de2abc-0
00:03:12.640 --> 00:03:16.013
So do you have your own story that you
shared for the book as well,

966cdb49-2741-4db9-969a-ef4e45de2abc-1
00:03:16.013 --> 00:03:17.800
like that's been passed down to you?

ec1df2c4-8e40-4426-90fd-68461e660381-0
00:03:18.120 --> 00:03:22.176
Yeah, well,
I grew up on the South Coast of NSW down

ec1df2c4-8e40-4426-90fd-68461e660381-1
00:03:22.176 --> 00:03:26.615
in Yuan Country,
so I knew a bit of the stories of sacred

ec1df2c4-8e40-4426-90fd-68461e660381-2
00:03:26.615 --> 00:03:27.840
sites and stuff.

76b14687-f988-4a5c-9ea1-7102f17a771e-0
00:03:27.840 --> 00:03:32.729
So when we got to speak to the knowledge
holders of that country,

76b14687-f988-4a5c-9ea1-7102f17a771e-1
00:03:32.729 --> 00:03:36.360
I don't understand in any way of that
land mass.

9cb6a060-0ad3-4fdd-a212-4e2882d292c6-0
00:03:36.360 --> 00:03:42.897
But not so much Queensland and some parts
of Bungelung like this area,

9cb6a060-0ad3-4fdd-a212-4e2882d292c6-1
00:03:42.897 --> 00:03:45.200
dark engine and all that.

51349098-3a33-4381-b110-27191fdca434-0
00:03:45.200 --> 00:03:50.033
So did you find that the story changed in
different areas dramatically or were we

51349098-3a33-4381-b110-27191fdca434-1
00:03:50.033 --> 00:03:51.920
getting consistent through line?

0ced2c98-5e2c-4937-9404-b7de2a190d13-0
00:03:52.000 --> 00:03:54.280
Pretty consistent in Totem.

1608788e-ac08-4381-9adb-3f13784daa1d-0
00:03:54.560 --> 00:04:00.320
Totem was like totems of people's clans
and tribes food.

8caa7e41-261f-42de-97fa-1923b8ccfb5f-0
00:04:00.520 --> 00:04:05.200
The seasons of when they'd collect
certain seafood.

24cbc28c-7413-4d51-be67-a419e23d3907-0
00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:10.034
When the flowers are blooming in country
in the mountains,

24cbc28c-7413-4d51-be67-a419e23d3907-1
00:04:10.034 --> 00:04:15.696
they'd all travel to the coast and
collect crayfish if the red flower was

24cbc28c-7413-4d51-be67-a419e23d3907-2
00:04:15.696 --> 00:04:18.680
coming out in the mountains and yellow.

df193301-0768-4585-b7eb-94c22f3b6ff7-0
00:04:19.480 --> 00:04:24.525
So they had different colours for the
flowers that had bloom in spring or

df193301-0768-4585-b7eb-94c22f3b6ff7-1
00:04:24.525 --> 00:04:28.480
autumn or summer,
and they'd make their way to the coast.

043560aa-2bab-4f6a-9e9a-5164dc948b0f-0
00:04:28.480 --> 00:04:33.234
They knew when to make their way to the
coast when the fish were travelling in

043560aa-2bab-4f6a-9e9a-5164dc948b0f-1
00:04:33.234 --> 00:04:35.160
schools or lobsters were plenty.

0636cbec-3f1e-49ff-9f47-7782c70ae683-0
00:04:36.160 --> 00:04:38.240
So they read the country pretty well.

b0233dc5-6306-446d-a649-b07af613dfb0-0
00:04:38.520 --> 00:04:42.040
And so a lot of people had, you know,
guarantee and hear from his voice.

c44c3a4f-42ac-4085-979b-15305d2c71eb-0
00:04:42.040 --> 00:04:43.000
He's Indigenous.

6ebc31a6-f2f7-4e96-845b-cdf53751243a-0
00:04:43.480 --> 00:04:47.415
And a lot of people in remote communities,
one question we often get asked,

6ebc31a6-f2f7-4e96-845b-cdf53751243a-1
00:04:47.415 --> 00:04:51.040
we come in, people say, OK,
so which university are you fellows from?

5845e8a0-abdb-435b-9b59-62427aeb9138-0
00:04:51.720 --> 00:04:54.080
And we say, yeah,
we're not from university, actually.

d04190a7-34ec-47f0-97af-71d294dd2150-0
00:04:54.240 --> 00:04:54.720
Oh, OK.

55503e71-6c08-476f-9bcb-356e6c7310b0-0
00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:54.920
OK.

7d73a5de-8c26-4aa1-9a31-1930ca9d5dd9-0
00:04:55.280 --> 00:04:57.280
Which government department are you
fellows from?

20a85d85-9710-401c-8584-83abf89ab098-0
00:04:57.280 --> 00:04:59.800
They say, no, no, no,
I'm not from the government department.

d73b8288-031a-4bb7-aac1-6035abc40ea1-0
00:05:00.200 --> 00:05:01.600
And where the hell are you fellows from?

06bf4e89-7f8c-45ca-b95a-76f4fcc43e71-0
00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:01.760
Yeah.

c22eeb17-7a91-49c1-87c6-8121035ad122-0
00:05:01.760 --> 00:05:02.960
What what are you doing here?

94f45141-48bf-4a82-b49f-0f1388c0314a-0
00:05:03.240 --> 00:05:03.720
Pretty much.

c6bcbc9b-a7e8-4601-a75d-e319a29ad0ac-0
00:05:03.720 --> 00:05:04.920
And we explain what we're doing.

663169e1-f3d2-4cf0-92bd-77dd424bc040-0
00:05:05.320 --> 00:05:09.240
Most of them never had an Indigenous
person come and talk to them, quiz them.

be219347-7fc4-43a8-a091-26b7e3470d49-0
00:05:09.240 --> 00:05:11.387
So it,
it made for a different one on one

be219347-7fc4-43a8-a091-26b7e3470d49-1
00:05:11.387 --> 00:05:15.120
relationship and we had a sort of passing
different test, you might say.

8ca8ab1c-9516-478b-9a87-35a10ce1b181-0
00:05:15.120 --> 00:05:17.600
We weren't just given information off the
bat.

a7549c68-26fd-4fa6-af29-4880045d592d-0
00:05:17.600 --> 00:05:20.960
We had to convince people that were
genuine and, and you know,

a7549c68-26fd-4fa6-af29-4880045d592d-1
00:05:20.960 --> 00:05:21.920
really convincing.

a4b5c177-a551-4b13-b56f-aea33669a96e-0
00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:24.520
We're going to be respectful to the
stories and so on.

799e9456-90fe-4f4a-b29b-9be90b543ad9-0
00:05:24.840 --> 00:05:28.553
And trust and trust and so on had to be
established beforehand before they would

799e9456-90fe-4f4a-b29b-9be90b543ad9-1
00:05:28.553 --> 00:05:28.920
do that.

1b12438c-eb7f-4f2d-bf05-19f3b7248c03-0
00:05:28.920 --> 00:05:31.453
And, you know,
some of the stories were then taken out

1b12438c-eb7f-4f2d-bf05-19f3b7248c03-1
00:05:31.453 --> 00:05:35.000
of the book afterwards because people
said afterwards, you know, retrospect.

f956c2b5-b9a1-402e-89c9-8b582b909597-0
00:05:35.000 --> 00:05:35.480
Yeah, no.

703af83f-f295-40fc-b6df-32a126410b2e-0
00:05:35.480 --> 00:05:37.080
And so we said that's fine, it's out.

35448bc5-c2f4-4ebc-a07e-0db8adb0ac56-0
00:05:37.080 --> 00:05:40.873
And what had been the experience in the
past for those communities with

35448bc5-c2f4-4ebc-a07e-0db8adb0ac56-1
00:05:40.873 --> 00:05:43.560
government and universities coming and
visit them?

d1ee0e91-1a2d-4efe-96e5-777915d6861e-0
00:05:43.560 --> 00:05:47.720
It was always an ulterior motive that
they were sceptical of our guys.

51a9ef6e-abd9-43bc-95b3-96d24f1e9374-0
00:05:47.760 --> 00:05:48.400
Yeah.

5128034b-f49c-46f2-a0f1-3ce59f4aad65-0
00:05:48.400 --> 00:05:51.063
So the, the,
the challenge was so you know, the,

5128034b-f49c-46f2-a0f1-3ce59f4aad65-1
00:05:51.063 --> 00:05:55.303
the references to Joseph Banks and Joseph
Banks went up the coast and he took

5128034b-f49c-46f2-a0f1-3ce59f4aad65-2
00:05:55.303 --> 00:05:59.489
flowers and plants and artefacts and
foods and waters without permission and

5128034b-f49c-46f2-a0f1-3ce59f4aad65-3
00:05:59.489 --> 00:06:01.119
stole them and took them away.

4ad91c25-fb48-4c46-ab22-1fee4f5241dd-0
00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:03.000
And anthropologists do the same.

0a386fab-14b1-41c1-b0b9-59d59ce80f9a-0
00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:07.169
They come and take stories and histories
and they take them away and the people

0a386fab-14b1-41c1-b0b9-59d59ce80f9a-1
00:06:07.169 --> 00:06:08.160
never see anything.

cd0a80b7-2011-47a4-8f85-f63958de7c84-0
00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:11.187
So we had a,
an ethos we developed early was that

cd0a80b7-2011-47a4-8f85-f63958de7c84-1
00:06:11.187 --> 00:06:14.880
people would always be paid for their
cultural consultation.

fcda2a8c-7188-4ce5-a8ca-26747c336044-0
00:06:14.880 --> 00:06:19.130
It was appropriate and we'd always bring
the stories back to them and say you go

fcda2a8c-7188-4ce5-a8ca-26747c336044-1
00:06:19.130 --> 00:06:23.485
through it and tell us what we got right,
got wrong and what you want to share and

fcda2a8c-7188-4ce5-a8ca-26747c336044-2
00:06:23.485 --> 00:06:23.799
don't.

a624be8d-e7ad-4fc3-a4c1-4f0d059790df-0
00:06:23.800 --> 00:06:26.885
So rather than saying we're the authors,
we were the, I guess,

a624be8d-e7ad-4fc3-a4c1-4f0d059790df-1
00:06:26.885 --> 00:06:29.040
the custodians of the stories in this
book.

a318f3a1-d507-4d91-856a-c05b174f33f6-0
00:06:29.040 --> 00:06:32.543
And we talked to about 7070 people,
you know,

a318f3a1-d507-4d91-856a-c05b174f33f6-1
00:06:32.543 --> 00:06:36.200
it grew and grew and grew as we went up
though.

9c2224b1-b09d-4784-8ac4-9d0f50096eb4-0
00:06:36.200 --> 00:06:38.866
Also interest is as Cook travelled up the
coast,

9c2224b1-b09d-4784-8ac4-9d0f50096eb4-1
00:06:38.866 --> 00:06:42.239
they sent smoke signals ahead saying he
was coming, you know,

9c2224b1-b09d-4784-8ac4-9d0f50096eb4-2
00:06:42.239 --> 00:06:43.600
saying modern was coming.

639ed724-ec25-445b-b620-60b055fd4761-0
00:06:44.080 --> 00:06:45.600
And the same as we got further.

4906da39-da13-4f90-8ea5-7877f85220ef-0
00:06:45.600 --> 00:06:46.320
Queensland.

394f82cc-a086-4cdc-8696-f6f217f5221a-0
00:06:46.320 --> 00:06:46.840
Oh, yeah, Yeah.

f23a38c5-85ed-4a32-b424-1e8656e4cac8-0
00:06:46.840 --> 00:06:47.720
We've heard of you too.

dc6a2a0b-8b14-4d6b-9fea-476c3345362b-0
00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:48.840
Yeah.

57cf1f7a-8879-4f3c-af1a-e7fc4c94c6e1-0
00:06:48.880 --> 00:06:50.240
Words passed along the line.

95f8dac2-025a-42ba-b528-720fdbe9c780-0
00:06:50.240 --> 00:06:50.520
Yeah.

56a59c23-fd3f-4747-a675-ecf1682f40e8-0
00:06:50.840 --> 00:06:52.640
How do those smoke signals get sent now?

17e83bf1-dc93-447b-b7d2-4874834c3509-0
00:06:52.640 --> 00:06:53.400
Via satellite?

bc354584-9e31-46bf-b4b3-889a2ba45801-0
00:06:54.280 --> 00:06:54.760
That's right.

a317a3b3-c514-429a-a129-fb0f6b1812be-0
00:06:54.880 --> 00:06:55.080
Yeah.

4806ec8b-3b43-454a-84d7-28330f029383-0
00:06:55.800 --> 00:06:56.440
SMS.

a0bcddf3-ecd2-44cb-9bda-558a49a5d750-0
00:06:56.440 --> 00:06:57.400
And what's that?

ea95b5bb-cc5b-4fac-bcd6-60eb143b3a6c-0
00:06:57.520 --> 00:07:00.120
Yeah,
We don't wait for you guys to turn up.

4c58d1cd-b6ca-45a5-a131-c6bec57a0682-0
00:07:00.840 --> 00:07:00.960
Yeah.

c1ca6fe2-60b0-4fc7-8d8c-a7740fba9c20-0
00:07:01.400 --> 00:07:02.040
What did you find?

96f7d4b5-0fb7-408b-a4f9-dcf2a0195a6d-0
00:07:02.040 --> 00:07:04.400
They were a little bit more trusting once
you got there, haven't you?

8aa8920c-5211-46a6-a22f-6b7984bca6cc-0
00:07:04.520 --> 00:07:06.040
If if were passed for long.

be56442f-663a-417e-8a5d-6903ec622510-0
00:07:06.160 --> 00:07:06.760
Indeed it did.

3ff98304-4f3a-46c2-972b-2dc1b78c3619-0
00:07:06.760 --> 00:07:09.273
It worked as reference to say, Darren,
then people would say, yeah, yeah,

3ff98304-4f3a-46c2-972b-2dc1b78c3619-1
00:07:09.273 --> 00:07:11.720
'cause you talk to that mob and they'll
come forward with what you did.

446dd381-4a3c-45d2-82fb-72686138e36d-0
00:07:11.720 --> 00:07:13.360
So, you know, they said, yeah,
they were right.

aefd465b-f717-41b0-b5ad-d370c7853586-0
00:07:13.640 --> 00:07:16.560
And what has been the reception of those
people to the book?

7ae46ad8-22e0-4272-9d97-6e75ad9c5264-0
00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:20.080
Have you taken the book back to them and
have they been happy?

710cc794-d3a1-4f90-b419-f6dea6a03360-0
00:07:20.120 --> 00:07:20.360
Yeah.

6202fbad-2cac-4399-829c-80752ba56386-0
00:07:20.360 --> 00:07:21.840
So I've done a lot of the consult.

59743796-58d2-4f07-83cd-cd11d32ae582-0
00:07:21.840 --> 00:07:24.560
The liaison back,
sent copies of the book back to everyone.

a60cf96a-bc5d-4628-8e87-1e582978b826-0
00:07:24.560 --> 00:07:26.080
They were promised they'd get a copy of
the book.

2b05b4de-af8b-4815-8c25-d9caea887e8b-0
00:07:26.520 --> 00:07:31.853
And some of them said, you know,
no one's ever told our mob story story in

2b05b4de-af8b-4815-8c25-d9caea887e8b-1
00:07:31.853 --> 00:07:33.560
like 25 pages, 30 pages.

ac490566-c769-425d-82f2-a1f68010158d-0
00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:37.800
And if someone written a university
thesis, it's behind a paywall.

bb9273bf-c74d-45c6-be1b-7aae68709bed-0
00:07:37.800 --> 00:07:40.680
And all of a sudden,
how young fellas can read that?

b68ed48e-6674-4842-8ad2-ecb6d49fa1f4-0
00:07:40.920 --> 00:07:43.192
You know,
young fellas don't have great necessary

b68ed48e-6674-4842-8ad2-ecb6d49fa1f4-1
00:07:43.192 --> 00:07:43.920
literacy skills.

5a9ef278-d3cb-44e2-acb8-2612f006bdb2-0
00:07:43.920 --> 00:07:48.320
They can read 2530 pages and they can
know our dreaming story.

0c1981a5-59f4-404d-beb1-7079d61c2e1e-0
00:07:48.320 --> 00:07:49.640
They can know our culture.

44271fe0-46a6-4022-84bf-a15fcda43b0b-0
00:07:49.640 --> 00:07:51.360
They can know what happened to contact.

2d7408a4-dfaf-4b05-96a1-8eb1c1b91876-0
00:07:51.440 --> 00:07:53.200
And they can really feel pride in it.

78b9d0ef-d874-4163-8540-621bc158a27d-0
00:07:53.200 --> 00:07:55.467
So it was, yeah,
it was a really nice feeling when people

78b9d0ef-d874-4163-8540-621bc158a27d-1
00:07:55.467 --> 00:07:56.640
gave us that kind of feedback.

4f6ba590-1d26-4591-bfcc-e25f0d48920b-0
00:07:56.680 --> 00:07:57.520
Give feedback.

cb09b0db-ef48-4840-950f-4de8df7e55af-0
00:07:57.720 --> 00:07:57.960
Yeah.

290b6859-cc4c-46b9-868d-69e2ae3c1d22-0
00:07:57.960 --> 00:08:03.009
So is there a consistent sort of view of
that time, that period of time,

290b6859-cc4c-46b9-868d-69e2ae3c1d22-1
00:08:03.009 --> 00:08:07.920
or is it something that it just comes
with all different perspectives?

bc17f86f-a5d8-46f8-b793-c047c3425109-0
00:08:08.040 --> 00:08:08.160
Yeah.

1bb6a279-4741-4c26-8d97-a4ebdeb06a36-0
00:08:08.280 --> 00:08:09.200
What would you think, Darren?

837b640d-513e-45d8-9758-b04970f33d96-0
00:08:09.200 --> 00:08:12.720
That everyone's sort of bit focused on
their land, their mob, their own history?

f63fe5ee-fa90-4f99-8a90-9abe1e578b30-0
00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:14.720
Yeah, a lot of them were yeah.

6c67a87f-1efc-41b5-b5f2-a1d4a5f429b0-0
00:08:14.800 --> 00:08:15.200
Yeah.

2f5e3c0f-538c-4764-bd60-75c026903ec3-0
00:08:15.520 --> 00:08:21.880
And that extending other tribes because
they're part of that tribe as well.

18e69b58-8670-43d5-9c27-f55d091f9058-0
00:08:21.880 --> 00:08:26.640
So that'd share a bit from that tribe and
share a bit from another tribe.

503ed4f1-5cc8-4970-96bb-f2e41ffca76d-0
00:08:27.160 --> 00:08:30.703
So the hell,
they hold pride within their culture in

503ed4f1-5cc8-4970-96bb-f2e41ffca76d-1
00:08:30.703 --> 00:08:31.640
their country.

50fe0c2e-e194-408a-bd08-73ea17d36afb-0
00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:34.750
You mentioned truth telling as well as
being important,

50fe0c2e-e194-408a-bd08-73ea17d36afb-1
00:08:34.750 --> 00:08:37.600
and that's a term that is thrown around a
lot these days.

2d9444a1-1416-41e7-ade6-291c77566c2b-0
00:08:37.920 --> 00:08:40.520
What does that mean to the people that
you spoke to?

5f5f93ec-3fb3-496d-8d01-085109e615fa-0
00:08:40.520 --> 00:08:41.600
What's important to them?

220bb88c-d9d8-40db-9ea4-779677f89e98-0
00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:47.069
And when it comes to truth telling,
what was important to them was getting

220bb88c-d9d8-40db-9ea4-779677f89e98-1
00:08:47.069 --> 00:08:51.227
their voice out there and talking about
their ancestors,

220bb88c-d9d8-40db-9ea4-779677f89e98-2
00:08:51.227 --> 00:08:56.770
what the ancestors seen happened to their
people and their country and just

220bb88c-d9d8-40db-9ea4-779677f89e98-3
00:08:56.770 --> 00:09:02.240
reclamation of their language and they're
going back to country and stuff.

4c83ef8b-0bb4-40bd-b31f-0c05347c6a81-0
00:09:02.880 --> 00:09:08.472
So the truth telling was dispossession
and colonisation of the country,

4c83ef8b-0bb4-40bd-b31f-0c05347c6a81-1
00:09:08.472 --> 00:09:12.200
especially as we got up in the Queensland
more.

94382d7b-ff1f-4250-9668-f8fdbd1ef40f-0
00:09:13.480 --> 00:09:17.364
I think historically when we talk about
colonisation or what have you,

94382d7b-ff1f-4250-9668-f8fdbd1ef40f-1
00:09:17.364 --> 00:09:20.428
the message is that it was all very
peaceful, you know,

94382d7b-ff1f-4250-9668-f8fdbd1ef40f-2
00:09:20.428 --> 00:09:23.000
and that we all just came together and
shared.

3f495aab-7739-4c01-aa08-34fdbee7b6dc-0
00:09:23.240 --> 00:09:27.162
That's kind of been the messaging that's
been taught in schools up until probably

3f495aab-7739-4c01-aa08-34fdbee7b6dc-1
00:09:27.162 --> 00:09:27.880
quite recently.

c93778fe-c502-41bb-bce3-7c10d57d38c7-0
00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:30.440
So what is the alternative perspective on
that?

123634d0-27e6-40e3-b7fa-7f5df3238af7-0
00:09:30.440 --> 00:09:31.760
What is the other view?

2d6d2ace-fa38-4fa2-b5bd-08ca41e4a80a-0
00:09:31.880 --> 00:09:35.815
So the historians even like Linda Ryan
from the University of Newcastle here,

2d6d2ace-fa38-4fa2-b5bd-08ca41e4a80a-1
00:09:35.815 --> 00:09:37.480
bless her, she's passed away now.

89581d87-61fd-4bab-a59a-c35b8549cbeb-0
00:09:37.480 --> 00:09:41.410
She did a deep dive into, you know,
trying to do an estimate of numbers of

89581d87-61fd-4bab-a59a-c35b8549cbeb-1
00:09:41.410 --> 00:09:45.131
people who were killed and more and
people killed by settlers then the

89581d87-61fd-4bab-a59a-c35b8549cbeb-2
00:09:45.131 --> 00:09:47.280
cohorts, then we killed in World War One.

771f33e6-f868-4ec8-aa3c-c411eabdbeb2-0
00:09:47.520 --> 00:09:47.880
Wow.

93988cc2-238c-4259-90ea-189998a4605d-0
00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:53.081
And yet we have these massive memorials
and Anzac Day commemorations to World War

93988cc2-238c-4259-90ea-189998a4605d-1
00:09:53.081 --> 00:09:55.560
One where about 60,000 Australians died.

491376a6-0439-4104-8534-3e9781d4f6be-0
00:09:55.880 --> 00:10:00.963
But if we consider Indigenous Australians
or Australians and we had wars on our own

491376a6-0439-4104-8534-3e9781d4f6be-1
00:10:00.963 --> 00:10:04.655
land in excess of 60,
000 people died in those wars of which

491376a6-0439-4104-8534-3e9781d4f6be-2
00:10:04.655 --> 00:10:07.560
were SHHH, yeah,
let's not talk too much about.

888c7df7-1cab-4957-947b-429c87f9c182-0
00:10:07.880 --> 00:10:09.240
And why do you think that is?

0e360cb6-9814-453b-9392-1c6b85f27bfb-0
00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:11.599
I mean,
it's not that we don't ever talk about

0e360cb6-9814-453b-9392-1c6b85f27bfb-1
00:10:11.599 --> 00:10:11.800
war.

b6bcc654-7d1c-4008-be5e-1ad49ab468e8-0
00:10:11.800 --> 00:10:14.372
Like certainly our history books are full
of war and,

b6bcc654-7d1c-4008-be5e-1ad49ab468e8-1
00:10:14.372 --> 00:10:17.040
and tales of conquest and all of these
sorts of things.

0a1b2dfc-1818-41af-81fe-430179e174c1-0
00:10:17.040 --> 00:10:20.680
So why is it that Australian history has
swept that under the rug, do you think?

0478ffea-6046-4006-8668-68e47e7bf047-0
00:10:20.680 --> 00:10:22.160
I think it's been a shame for war.

05b45c85-c435-4950-a53e-a45b26db3f67-0
00:10:22.280 --> 00:10:25.391
And we're, you know,
World War One and Anzac Day was a proud

05b45c85-c435-4950-a53e-a45b26db3f67-1
00:10:25.391 --> 00:10:25.800
for war.

090acab0-c39a-4e1d-9a00-3546c65fb0d8-0
00:10:26.360 --> 00:10:30.369
And we have to change the way we think
about that because a lot of us are

090acab0-c39a-4e1d-9a00-3546c65fb0d8-1
00:10:30.369 --> 00:10:34.649
complicit one way or the other in either
not sharing that story or in allowing

090acab0-c39a-4e1d-9a00-3546c65fb0d8-2
00:10:34.649 --> 00:10:36.600
that storage to be swept away a bit.

7aaa812c-4bdf-4743-83f0-f32ea8fd793f-0
00:10:36.760 --> 00:10:39.040
It's a narrative Australia has to come to
terms with.

8ca3fc03-3d78-4799-ba7e-6af0afbb6ae9-0
00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:41.730
And when you were talking to these
communities,

8ca3fc03-3d78-4799-ba7e-6af0afbb6ae9-1
00:10:41.730 --> 00:10:45.680
is was there a sense of pain and loss
that was coming through around that time?

84a184ee-b4a9-4849-b652-d6d12c7e2aad-0
00:10:45.880 --> 00:10:48.084
I mean,
you talked about loss of country and

84a184ee-b4a9-4849-b652-d6d12c7e2aad-1
00:10:48.084 --> 00:10:50.240
dispossession,
but what about life as well?

dd4a4edf-7205-48f1-a34e-7777bbde6467-0
00:10:50.240 --> 00:10:53.473
Well,
I talked about that a lot and we didn't

dd4a4edf-7205-48f1-a34e-7777bbde6467-1
00:10:53.473 --> 00:10:57.200
put a lot of that in into the book
because horrific.

59a698fb-7032-44c6-be48-2f913a9e4e5a-0
00:10:57.200 --> 00:10:59.720
Some of the stories because I too
confront them.

172cb145-4e0d-4ab6-b7ea-a2e15c8fa356-0
00:10:59.760 --> 00:11:03.752
Some, in some communities,
they're only there because one person

172cb145-4e0d-4ab6-b7ea-a2e15c8fa356-1
00:11:03.752 --> 00:11:07.560
survived and that one person therefore
had children, married.

b4152943-0155-479b-b6f9-06fa26e30b77-0
00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:09.720
Otherwise the whole community wouldn't be
there.

99f8df83-ef55-4153-8765-bf2b56fb8f98-0
00:11:09.720 --> 00:11:11.760
So it was, you know,
pretty very confronting.

341985f9-ad0b-411a-b54d-b493f47ddf99-0
00:11:11.960 --> 00:11:12.080
Yeah.

c78c1ad0-3ca8-4d0c-a364-f75443d7e166-0
00:11:12.840 --> 00:11:16.600
And what memories have been passed down
of that time?

80b62876-eb11-4acb-9354-0150946214f8-0
00:11:16.600 --> 00:11:19.102
Like,
what surprised you that you learned along

80b62876-eb11-4acb-9354-0150946214f8-1
00:11:19.102 --> 00:11:19.520
the way?

3b7a5a4a-562d-4977-9089-8df18a6697fc-0
00:11:19.560 --> 00:11:24.320
We sat there and interviewed 4
generations in one room.

4722adec-6aeb-4677-a88e-a4d916d415ab-0
00:11:25.280 --> 00:11:29.873
And that would really got me and Craig
thinking, Oh, well,

4722adec-6aeb-4677-a88e-a4d916d415ab-1
00:11:29.873 --> 00:11:35.480
this is they pass their stories on to
five generations of their people.

c368e15b-e8ea-4a59-a3d8-98e20fa3db73-0
00:11:35.960 --> 00:11:40.008
So you have young,
young people in their 20s,

c368e15b-e8ea-4a59-a3d8-98e20fa3db73-1
00:11:40.008 --> 00:11:45.200
old people in their 40s and then the
Sixties, 70s and 80s.

092e4f8f-41fc-4d9e-abc5-3f909e6c93dd-0
00:11:45.440 --> 00:11:50.720
And then you have a little kid who's
probably 6 or 7.

abf47ff6-614a-44fa-b80b-77ae9401c81f-0
00:11:51.400 --> 00:11:56.814
So when we heard that story and heard
about their country in the massacre and

abf47ff6-614a-44fa-b80b-77ae9401c81f-1
00:11:56.814 --> 00:12:00.840
how the river was running with blood and
stuff like that.

b8baf838-974e-4635-bc54-66515266d6e1-0
00:12:00.840 --> 00:12:05.400
So they talk about that because they've
survived.

c5d17e4b-8084-4a2f-a1a7-10160cbe5aff-0
00:12:05.680 --> 00:12:10.880
So they talk their pride within their
clan and their people were pretty strong.

00a8d05a-0b94-44a3-95e0-8150d63752e8-0
00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:11.320
Yeah.

aa349c21-c420-4a8d-82b0-9b65e2d710e2-0
00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:14.560
The Queensland was central QLD was pretty
horrific, really.

9db6e378-f66c-451f-a734-12dceb35646c-0
00:12:14.560 --> 00:12:17.893
And it was sort of off the maps and it
was away from the capital cities and it

9db6e378-f66c-451f-a734-12dceb35646c-1
00:12:17.893 --> 00:12:19.160
was out of sight, out of mind.

37090648-e79d-4d2a-ae2b-c3f294c290dd-0
00:12:19.560 --> 00:12:22.462
And there was a strong ethos of, you know,
it's the weekend,

37090648-e79d-4d2a-ae2b-c3f294c290dd-1
00:12:22.462 --> 00:12:24.080
Grab your guns were going out too.

43eed40b-c95d-41f8-9009-497853d2bfe4-0
00:12:24.800 --> 00:12:25.040
It was.

a7eeeb1d-521f-424e-ba14-81c835c2230d-0
00:12:25.120 --> 00:12:25.320
Yeah.

041d03e2-cc6c-4779-b93f-2cb07541de9d-0
00:12:25.320 --> 00:12:26.040
Absolutely appalling.

798f5428-b6f6-43ed-8f62-bba797fbbb74-0
00:12:26.040 --> 00:12:26.120
Wow.

49bc21cc-66d1-4817-ae32-365a86438d7d-0
00:12:26.600 --> 00:12:32.340
And then we talk about the native police,
talked about a lot about the native

49bc21cc-66d1-4817-ae32-365a86438d7d-1
00:12:32.340 --> 00:12:37.344
police and were the trackers,
where were they brought from to a lot

49bc21cc-66d1-4817-ae32-365a86438d7d-2
00:12:37.344 --> 00:12:42.496
were brought from NSW to Queensland and
vice versa, because you know,

49bc21cc-66d1-4817-ae32-365a86438d7d-3
00:12:42.496 --> 00:12:45.440
you wouldn't do that to your own people.

8e0ca7c6-dcbe-4b79-99ff-0b3cdd74415e-0
00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:47.600
So what was their role?

3bd422ae-fd5d-4470-a921-02f1b00aae94-0
00:12:49.040 --> 00:12:52.200
The native police is another story that
Australia is really to learn about.

54e9b91e-057e-428f-8318-7a7ad9236b95-0
00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:54.763
So there were,
there were native police stationed a lot

54e9b91e-057e-428f-8318-7a7ad9236b95-1
00:12:54.763 --> 00:12:56.960
of parts of Australia over a couple of
decades.

a6a789a4-15e9-4eb7-a1e7-c41c776916cb-0
00:12:57.400 --> 00:12:58.560
The kids tend to be recruited.

d17c721b-81d6-45b3-8e73-5200eada0d2d-0
00:12:58.560 --> 00:13:01.312
They're basically child soldiers
recruited young and give them a gun and

d17c721b-81d6-45b3-8e73-5200eada0d2d-1
00:13:01.312 --> 00:13:03.160
give them a horse, give them a uniform,
big man.

684e6a59-7480-4cb1-9ccd-03a140834833-0
00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:07.525
Then you take them miles and miles and
miles away from any neighbouring clan

684e6a59-7480-4cb1-9ccd-03a140834833-1
00:13:07.525 --> 00:13:08.480
they grew up with.

bed65c2e-a447-4e5a-8c50-100e4a3c51ee-0
00:13:08.480 --> 00:13:10.760
So they had no association with the clan
to take them to.

e18814b6-f212-416d-b81b-f858f3f1013d-0
00:13:10.760 --> 00:13:16.000
And they'd be there to pacify the locals,
which really meant going crazy.

d61be0b4-8be1-4a58-a6c8-6a62ad85dbb7-0
00:13:16.280 --> 00:13:17.760
They can track better than others.

210f0b29-22fc-4c05-830e-7adf1e578a78-0
00:13:17.760 --> 00:13:18.880
We call them black trackers.

4395d8a1-6afd-44fe-8a9d-41254a2e4e83-0
00:13:18.880 --> 00:13:23.123
They were called years later to make them
seem nicer and we met the descendants of

4395d8a1-6afd-44fe-8a9d-41254a2e4e83-1
00:13:23.123 --> 00:13:27.366
a couple of them and it's it's it's quite
hard in to the head in to know that your

4395d8a1-6afd-44fe-8a9d-41254a2e4e83-2
00:13:27.366 --> 00:13:30.279
own ancestor was traffic mob and probably
shooting them.

2da84391-3389-4d5a-b07b-ab8e44b95fe3-0
00:13:30.400 --> 00:13:33.339
And so a lot of the records have been
destroyed over the years,

2da84391-3389-4d5a-b07b-ab8e44b95fe3-1
00:13:33.339 --> 00:13:36.922
but there's enough records have still
been found and haunted down to find out

2da84391-3389-4d5a-b07b-ab8e44b95fe3-2
00:13:36.922 --> 00:13:37.520
what they do.

7672f7a7-c4ec-4ae6-b4fc-da22edeb7c0b-0
00:13:37.520 --> 00:13:42.880
So you generally have a white guy who's
be the the head of now ex bore war guys.

6c00fd1a-0c87-4236-83c2-086420d0f2ac-0
00:13:42.880 --> 00:13:47.135
They're a bit traumatised really from war
and they'd have a troop underneath their

6c00fd1a-0c87-4236-83c2-086420d0f2ac-1
00:13:47.135 --> 00:13:50.520
control and they'd ride into the Bush and
they'd clear out camps.

9d9b7462-3d9b-4788-9887-5e7c0b93125b-0
00:13:50.520 --> 00:13:53.138
That made what motivated that clearing
the land,

9d9b7462-3d9b-4788-9887-5e7c0b93125b-1
00:13:53.138 --> 00:13:56.931
land for the pastoralists because we
don't have enough of that here in

9d9b7462-3d9b-4788-9887-5e7c0b93125b-2
00:13:56.931 --> 00:13:57.840
Australia, do we?

081e570a-93cf-4ca9-a13b-fd7e1517165c-0
00:13:57.840 --> 00:13:58.840
No, we do.

a3b0584d-9f0e-404c-b787-6a4fb3010bd8-0
00:13:58.880 --> 00:14:03.025
But the past was considered the
Aboriginal people as a pest because

a3b0584d-9f0e-404c-b787-6a4fb3010bd8-1
00:14:03.025 --> 00:14:06.440
they'd spear, you know, OK,
we've taken over your land.

e878e52f-5751-43a0-9d94-5505d81598ea-0
00:14:06.440 --> 00:14:09.235
You've no longer got access to Kangaroos
and possums because we shot them,

e878e52f-5751-43a0-9d94-5505d81598ea-1
00:14:09.235 --> 00:14:11.360
although we've cleared the land where
they used to live.

6c56aa04-7e3c-43e7-9feb-49f1aa509df2-0
00:14:12.040 --> 00:14:13.400
There's sheep there or cows there.

1eedf8b7-16b4-446d-8260-3df46f760b22-0
00:14:13.400 --> 00:14:17.107
So then just people said, well,
I'm a spear of sheep because it's on my

1eedf8b7-16b4-446d-8260-3df46f760b22-1
00:14:17.107 --> 00:14:17.880
land, you know?

e52e8bd7-b50c-4993-93f4-69f7ee168e7a-0
00:14:17.920 --> 00:14:19.560
Yeah, you should be one of my sheep.

cdcd905e-ec01-496a-adc9-f626d888a923-0
00:14:19.560 --> 00:14:20.680
Then get the gang together.

5ff6e7a9-8e65-4451-80b7-14a4e6d920bc-0
00:14:20.680 --> 00:14:21.800
We'll go now and stop that.

b38edb9f-d9cc-4ad3-9870-c028ed3704bb-0
00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:24.480
So it was really about an argument of the
land.

0b66d010-d13e-4e65-aa81-2fff8f162e1b-0
00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:25.480
Whose land was it?

fb9ea7b3-a7ff-49ab-ba20-799793f8a730-0
00:14:25.760 --> 00:14:29.481
And, you know,
the settlers presumed it was at theirs

fb9ea7b3-a7ff-49ab-ba20-799793f8a730-1
00:14:29.481 --> 00:14:30.240
over there.

c94254d1-9c73-42af-ad4e-ace81e0eed2d-0
00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:32.640
And it was pretty pulling the other
stories.

89a5eab9-a08c-4731-8fc7-1d051818a7c9-0
00:14:32.840 --> 00:14:35.240
Prestige land like them, Yes.

3a89be65-eb52-441d-8be5-4ccfb9c4d12f-0
00:14:35.560 --> 00:14:37.840
Place down there, Parramatta and all that.

4f519f32-b255-4b0f-8960-3da47a5b1aeb-0
00:14:37.960 --> 00:14:39.280
Yeah, yeah.

083dc70e-cb26-40ca-bc0e-81bffdf666cf-0
00:14:39.280 --> 00:14:41.718
So I'm,
I'm wondering the people that you spoke

083dc70e-cb26-40ca-bc0e-81bffdf666cf-1
00:14:41.718 --> 00:14:45.579
to, like hearing all these stories,
we've got trauma going back hundreds of

083dc70e-cb26-40ca-bc0e-81bffdf666cf-2
00:14:45.579 --> 00:14:49.491
years and all these memories that are
still very fresh and not just from 200

083dc70e-cb26-40ca-bc0e-81bffdf666cf-3
00:14:49.491 --> 00:14:50.000
years ago.

d47d9c28-8464-43e5-96ed-fb8b5f5b7264-0
00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:51.000
It's like ongoing.

e996b0b4-3168-49ce-af40-a24a559f7bad-0
00:14:51.160 --> 00:14:56.161
I'm interested to know what they think
about Australia today and the path that

e996b0b4-3168-49ce-af40-a24a559f7bad-1
00:14:56.161 --> 00:14:59.960
the government is taking in the direction
that it's moving.

a5b8434f-088e-4ab4-8c6e-e6af3fabbeac-0
00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:04.018
A lot of the elders said there's been a
lot of change,

a5b8434f-088e-4ab4-8c6e-e6af3fabbeac-1
00:15:04.018 --> 00:15:06.480
but not enough change in the country.

3a0bbbd6-edab-4dbd-931b-8956cf2c842b-0
00:15:07.400 --> 00:15:09.080
So they see the initiatives as positive.

9bcfb374-1f36-4eb6-972e-a6c5e81bed4e-0
00:15:09.080 --> 00:15:10.920
Not, not a lot of trusted governments.

0d75d461-12ac-468b-a769-d907c4739572-0
00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:13.726
A lot of promises get broken,
but forgiving,

0d75d461-12ac-468b-a769-d907c4739572-1
00:15:13.726 --> 00:15:16.160
which is the thing I find really humbling.

2c25f5f6-2854-4996-90c3-68dbfe62ed91-0
00:15:16.160 --> 00:15:18.636
You know,
these communities where they've suffered

2c25f5f6-2854-4996-90c3-68dbfe62ed91-1
00:15:18.636 --> 00:15:22.229
so bad and they still want to work with
white people and live on the land

2c25f5f6-2854-4996-90c3-68dbfe62ed91-2
00:15:22.229 --> 00:15:23.880
communally and they still want to.

25787b09-157c-4c30-b718-9ca24cd99cb6-0
00:15:23.880 --> 00:15:27.518
There's anger in some communities,
but the sense of forgiveness that was

25787b09-157c-4c30-b718-9ca24cd99cb6-1
00:15:27.518 --> 00:15:30.160
apparent,
you know that that's a younger generation.

e3fd6e17-36ef-443e-8ca4-463e1939acac-0
00:15:30.640 --> 00:15:31.800
You're not the life who did it.

4014e29f-f9eb-4c4e-9345-9fafa33b0ffa-0
00:15:32.240 --> 00:15:34.120
So let's,
let's find a way to work together.

23c7fbcb-d444-4d64-a5a5-9f674d668963-0
00:15:34.120 --> 00:15:37.866
You got to get your school kids involved,
got to get changing understanding and see

23c7fbcb-d444-4d64-a5a5-9f674d668963-1
00:15:37.866 --> 00:15:39.160
how we can all live together.

7e9e34f7-b6b2-4def-9f5f-3a01fe57396f-0
00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:43.080
And are there any views on what that
might look like?

dd322951-849d-4bc2-ad54-ad57a1494bf3-0
00:15:43.680 --> 00:15:48.617
Are people wanting specific things to
happen or is it just this feeling of

dd322951-849d-4bc2-ad54-ad57a1494bf3-1
00:15:48.617 --> 00:15:50.000
moving towards peace?

ca30ed85-1cb4-471a-9cde-2269944ba2c4-0
00:15:50.680 --> 00:15:55.534
If we were asked to look across the board,
I think the Victorian model of a treaty

ca30ed85-1cb4-471a-9cde-2269944ba2c4-1
00:15:55.534 --> 00:16:00.096
has got a lot of people excited and we've
been looking a lot of treaty and we

ca30ed85-1cb4-471a-9cde-2269944ba2c4-2
00:16:00.096 --> 00:16:03.840
reckon they did the voice to Parliament
completely asked about.

46726230-6f07-4e71-9fcc-13da24f54947-0
00:16:04.400 --> 00:16:09.462
So it should have been truth telling,
then a treaty and then a representative

46726230-6f07-4e71-9fcc-13da24f54947-1
00:16:09.462 --> 00:16:10.760
voice in that order.

911a2b2a-f119-42ac-a84b-59284d5de5e8-0
00:16:10.760 --> 00:16:12.200
If you get out of order, it doesn't work.

b90a189a-906d-490c-aae8-1c37158adbb4-0
00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:16.800
And the reason is truth telling let's
people understand the actual situation.

f71fdbb8-3936-4ad8-b369-dbed2dc3e64b-0
00:16:17.000 --> 00:16:20.200
You hear what happened and you think,
Oh my God, I had no idea.

ade19403-82e7-49ed-b879-99f2f17af824-0
00:16:20.400 --> 00:16:21.320
That's the thing isn't it?

73a5fbeb-5b01-4423-bf7b-af8b0c88e97c-0
00:16:21.320 --> 00:16:21.600
That's it.

fbf21abf-8857-4012-8448-5cae0c57d64e-0
00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:22.960
We were never taught this in school.

4ce9419c-dce3-402b-9385-7e164d52548b-0
00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:24.200
We had no idea.

f2d345d6-6ea6-41a9-a56a-4f368cdab806-0
00:16:24.840 --> 00:16:26.897
That makes people more receptive to say,
OK,

f2d345d6-6ea6-41a9-a56a-4f368cdab806-1
00:16:26.897 --> 00:16:29.000
we probably should have had a land
agreement.

10c42e4c-436d-4c40-8f74-f96f0b7f16ed-0
00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:33.287
Particularly discovered that Australia
was the only British colony that never

10c42e4c-436d-4c40-8f74-f96f0b7f16ed-1
00:16:33.287 --> 00:16:37.575
had a treaty and there are up to 500
treaties signed across North America and

10c42e4c-436d-4c40-8f74-f96f0b7f16ed-2
00:16:37.575 --> 00:16:39.279
South America except Australia.

262a6509-7a9a-43a3-91ea-5d17a6d4f671-0
00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:43.591
And so why not you know,
so you discuss that, you know, OK, OK,

262a6509-7a9a-43a3-91ea-5d17a6d4f671-1
00:16:43.591 --> 00:16:47.460
maybe we need to have a treaty that
recognises prior sovereignty,

262a6509-7a9a-43a3-91ea-5d17a6d4f671-2
00:16:47.460 --> 00:16:49.159
that recognises these things.

8622c83c-49a3-4030-8289-0f295dd05272-0
00:16:49.720 --> 00:16:53.500
Then comes representative put voices in
Parliament or wherever a representative

8622c83c-49a3-4030-8289-0f295dd05272-1
00:16:53.500 --> 00:16:57.280
voice that can be accepted and that can
be worked out in different locations in

8622c83c-49a3-4030-8289-0f295dd05272-2
00:16:57.280 --> 00:16:58.840
different places that can differ.

9c202bed-aee5-4140-8de8-4f5b5c7d65e6-0
00:16:59.320 --> 00:17:04.040
But we we can very much to the understand
if you don't do it in that order,

9c202bed-aee5-4140-8de8-4f5b5c7d65e6-1
00:17:04.040 --> 00:17:04.600
you fail.

ffe80c0f-666d-488e-bb21-22311f4d8c15-0
00:17:04.760 --> 00:17:06.560
And that's I think why the voice to
Parliament failed.

2c0d22a6-4fa4-4147-ae9b-7146533a85ce-0
00:17:06.800 --> 00:17:09.509
He never raised enough awareness of why
it was important,

2c0d22a6-4fa4-4147-ae9b-7146533a85ce-1
00:17:09.509 --> 00:17:13.012
how what people have gone through kind of
put forward the question without

2c0d22a6-4fa4-4147-ae9b-7146533a85ce-2
00:17:13.012 --> 00:17:14.040
providing the context.

be6ac7f3-2125-4e99-8d1a-a85426d473f9-0
00:17:14.320 --> 00:17:18.320
And people say, well, why before,
why was never given.

0b7f8c51-4c89-418e-a7ae-695816dfd120-0
00:17:18.440 --> 00:17:22.599
Yeah,
because we're doing the book at the time

0b7f8c51-4c89-418e-a7ae-695816dfd120-1
00:17:22.599 --> 00:17:25.520
was very interesting, very mixed.

6d6942ed-7001-44be-8a66-1a9f85322ca1-0
00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:26.640
Yeah.

026b3976-6e42-4f3f-9648-e431969e0ca2-0
00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:30.000
A lot of Indigenous communities did not
see them on it, didn't want the voice.

ea7b0984-b679-4724-b375-8d62802ab81e-0
00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:30.800
Some did.

b8f55a4a-8ca9-4ea9-80e9-99e57e088236-0
00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:31.320
Yeah.

a871a70f-8973-4ed3-9061-8db1de93b2f7-0
00:17:31.320 --> 00:17:36.224
So you'd have to be tread very lightly
when you went into community and we tried

a871a70f-8973-4ed3-9061-8db1de93b2f7-1
00:17:36.224 --> 00:17:37.920
not to talk about it at all.

9807b54a-ac90-46b3-8527-836c77efc943-0
00:17:38.560 --> 00:17:43.160
But when we said we're from Canberra,
they'll go, oh, what's this?

d44a75f8-07b0-49b1-b2f3-0a3938cb9843-0
00:17:43.160 --> 00:17:45.960
Then they said, yeah, OK.

811fb8b8-6ea7-4177-a8ac-1b987dde997c-0
00:17:46.240 --> 00:17:48.040
And we'd say, Oh no, we're undecided.

d8135da3-7682-4d1c-9b9d-dd6e6c1ae475-0
00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:53.040
Yeah, well this is the interesting thing,
right?

0f5119fe-f7e8-4e60-89fe-018f2cc7376e-0
00:17:53.040 --> 00:17:54.880
Like you say, oh,
there's no trust in government.

22b36b9c-91f4-4148-b2d5-91f2b86f9ef4-0
00:17:55.280 --> 00:17:57.880
Nobody trusts the government like nobody
trusts any government.

710a7104-4912-478c-b965-42f34d74b38c-0
00:17:57.880 --> 00:17:59.160
That's that's the thing, right.

3c22ab61-bd7c-43d3-9754-98b261467b11-0
00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:03.680
And government initiatives are famously
inefficient and ineffective or only

3c22ab61-bd7c-43d3-9754-98b261467b11-1
00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:08.140
partially effective or too late or
indigenous people have a longer view of

3c22ab61-bd7c-43d3-9754-98b261467b11-2
00:18:08.140 --> 00:18:10.520
history than three year electoral cycle.

01ee01af-23e0-4e2a-bd75-7bfc050f0672-0
00:18:10.520 --> 00:18:11.000
Exactly.

587570ed-077e-46a6-8f97-d70c2625282e-0
00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:15.080
And they're famous for programmes coming
in setting up change government.

1b6f80d9-74be-4376-af96-cfa975b409fb-0
00:18:15.080 --> 00:18:17.291
No, no,
we're going to change that and given and

1b6f80d9-74be-4376-af96-cfa975b409fb-1
00:18:17.291 --> 00:18:20.360
it's like you never even got off the
ground and changed all around.

8aabbff0-2767-4c72-b2c8-43effb9ab61b-0
00:18:20.440 --> 00:18:20.680
Yeah.

88c1e236-e19a-4ab3-9e6a-395e0d410379-0
00:18:20.800 --> 00:18:24.720
And and that's the case for all forms of
government initiative.

39de1472-245f-4228-aa95-c8de50994e5d-0
00:18:24.800 --> 00:18:27.480
But I guess some of these are more
contentious than others.

47901e57-4f75-459b-88c2-8e58ea095b39-0
00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:32.353
And those are the ones that have this
roller coaster ride of funding and so on

47901e57-4f75-459b-88c2-8e58ea095b39-1
00:18:32.353 --> 00:18:36.240
that becomes like completely stifles any
attempts at progress.

80d9afa3-099e-4df1-84bc-d5b97bea73b7-0
00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:40.268
So it's frustrating, but yeah, it's like,
okay, treaty might be a nice idea,

80d9afa3-099e-4df1-84bc-d5b97bea73b7-1
00:18:40.268 --> 00:18:43.930
but also why are we trusting the
government necessarily to solve this

80d9afa3-099e-4df1-84bc-d5b97bea73b7-2
00:18:43.930 --> 00:18:48.221
problem in a productive way when we know
that government or most communities just

80d9afa3-099e-4df1-84bc-d5b97bea73b7-3
00:18:48.221 --> 00:18:50.000
wanna look after their own future?

441a8dd0-681f-448b-b45a-912998189088-0
00:18:50.680 --> 00:18:53.115
They say, you know,
just give us the resources and we'll

441a8dd0-681f-448b-b45a-912998189088-1
00:18:53.115 --> 00:18:54.440
manage our own welfare payment.

dfd5f21d-a601-44b0-8235-cfbe7f0919a8-0
00:18:54.440 --> 00:18:55.840
We'll manage our own health services.

372e3334-dc3a-48b7-804d-80bdf1ffb917-0
00:18:55.840 --> 00:19:00.000
We'll manage our own accounting for
country or to Ranger excursions for kids.

a6d72ee9-5aea-4dc5-bbad-2a7cf05de1aa-0
00:19:00.040 --> 00:19:03.413
We just got to be resourced to do that,
not resource for three years and then

a6d72ee9-5aea-4dc5-bbad-2a7cf05de1aa-1
00:19:03.413 --> 00:19:03.760
lose it.

59f23972-88ce-4ef4-8228-955edf78f07d-0
00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:06.080
And then you're constantly wondering when
the next.

0c9e9718-a8f9-46df-b30e-f949276244b3-0
00:19:06.200 --> 00:19:06.960
Yeah, yeah.

9946a4ac-9777-470f-a43a-19f3ddd592a5-0
00:19:07.520 --> 00:19:10.280
So it was Wara, Wara, Wara was.

8705b0ed-2694-4a89-9e6e-609ce6578d1d-0
00:19:10.520 --> 00:19:15.747
We went in there as with five main
questions to ask communities,

8705b0ed-2694-4a89-9e6e-609ce6578d1d-1
00:19:15.747 --> 00:19:18.160
and it grew and grew and grew.

91bdc120-a4f2-4105-875b-258e7e7c4eb4-0
00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:22.760
So did you go back to some of those
communities and ask more questions?

190c4ac9-bb0e-407b-b930-777d9e4cec83-0
00:19:22.760 --> 00:19:23.440
No, no, no.

330f74e6-e5df-42bf-9d7a-086d6b42ee42-0
00:19:24.080 --> 00:19:27.348
We had to stick to that,
but they wanted to talk about something

330f74e6-e5df-42bf-9d7a-086d6b42ee42-1
00:19:27.348 --> 00:19:27.600
else.

a1c86f3a-adb4-44be-a335-938b75f32e59-0
00:19:27.600 --> 00:19:30.640
So we'd have to go back to the five
questions of Arsene.

35178ef7-3c54-4d0b-8b54-5382081d9808-0
00:19:31.040 --> 00:19:33.600
What's your dreams Dreamtime stories?

f21fc750-6b77-4849-a19d-8de31cee4418-0
00:19:34.120 --> 00:19:37.360
What's your, you know,
connection to your country?

0afa1339-468d-4ed2-b6d9-00e463dda3ec-0
00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:40.640
What's your main place on country?

56ffef52-3978-4d02-b7b1-cb8ef1b35a8a-0
00:19:40.840 --> 00:19:46.120
Are you a knowledge holder or a
storyteller or a song man or song woman?

1ac391b2-117f-4ae1-add8-16ec0392e86c-0
00:19:46.320 --> 00:19:50.900
So we've mainly got all that like
landscapes,

1ac391b2-117f-4ae1-add8-16ec0392e86c-1
00:19:50.900 --> 00:19:57.374
the traditional names of landscapes,
Dreamtime stories, seasons,

1ac391b2-117f-4ae1-add8-16ec0392e86c-2
00:19:57.374 --> 00:20:00.759
and just everything we could find.

388242c9-20e7-40b9-b490-3343c72351d5-0
00:20:00.760 --> 00:20:00.880
Yeah.

a6046104-3900-44cf-bcac-8ba6dcd5466c-0
00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:04.453
Because country's so important to to
modern clan and you have to hear the

a6046104-3900-44cf-bcac-8ba6dcd5466c-1
00:20:04.453 --> 00:20:04.840
stories.

acb4b82e-93b8-4bbf-9592-48c880ba72c8-0
00:20:05.120 --> 00:20:07.880
We wanted to start each chapter of the
book and there are 18 chapters.

223f786f-2c77-4a61-8418-b12d221920cb-0
00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:11.237
Talking about the land,
the formation of the land,

223f786f-2c77-4a61-8418-b12d221920cb-1
00:20:11.237 --> 00:20:14.742
Dreamtime formation,
how that impacts how people relate to the

223f786f-2c77-4a61-8418-b12d221920cb-2
00:20:14.742 --> 00:20:15.800
land, live with it.

c30162a2-88d9-4bbd-ab2d-030e34a545b2-0
00:20:15.800 --> 00:20:19.175
Like Darren was talking about the floral
calendars for the seasons,

c30162a2-88d9-4bbd-ab2d-030e34a545b2-1
00:20:19.175 --> 00:20:23.047
how people lived before settlement,
then what happened at settlement then and

c30162a2-88d9-4bbd-ab2d-030e34a545b2-2
00:20:23.047 --> 00:20:24.040
so on down the line.

66e832e8-993e-4bc1-8d46-104e7605f939-0
00:20:24.040 --> 00:20:28.259
So we tried to capture that,
that I guess that capture a bit more

66e832e8-993e-4bc1-8d46-104e7605f939-1
00:20:28.259 --> 00:20:31.520
breadth until just the one started the
endeavours.

7a6abe72-2030-4fb1-b8fe-0b031d232dfc-0
00:20:31.600 --> 00:20:32.160
Yeah, yeah.

761cc6e0-2191-48c8-8205-16e2937f0f86-0
00:20:32.280 --> 00:20:35.490
With the traditional people in their
country,

761cc6e0-2191-48c8-8205-16e2937f0f86-1
00:20:35.490 --> 00:20:39.258
because there's one time they stayed in,
up in Keene,

761cc6e0-2191-48c8-8205-16e2937f0f86-2
00:20:39.258 --> 00:20:44.492
somewhere in town in Devon River, 56 days,
56, everybody knows Botany Bay,

761cc6e0-2191-48c8-8205-16e2937f0f86-3
00:20:44.492 --> 00:20:48.680
only a week in Botany Bay,
they were 56 days up on the top.

3e5cee58-1351-4937-9330-0119d5017e51-0
00:20:49.040 --> 00:20:51.200
So they got to meet the people and record
their words.

dd0bab99-ba21-4b07-843d-b63a8341782b-0
00:20:51.240 --> 00:20:53.280
But it's out of remote area.

4af3d227-5f06-4255-8eff-83dcb43aa0e6-0
00:20:53.280 --> 00:20:54.160
Most people never heard of it.

565c1bb7-a906-4740-b5fa-e4a5d34f7ec1-0
00:20:55.360 --> 00:20:56.400
What does that title mean?

b1d258a0-e494-4d78-9ef3-44fb8fad48d2-0
00:20:56.560 --> 00:20:56.840
Why?

120667b1-7aa6-409c-a26f-bdc8b1712b05-0
00:20:56.880 --> 00:20:57.160
Why?

610418d4-ea76-47bb-9c0e-30b7d2229ce8-0
00:20:57.200 --> 00:21:01.735
Why were the first words indigenous
language spoken on the East Coast to a

610418d4-ea76-47bb-9c0e-30b7d2229ce8-1
00:21:01.735 --> 00:21:02.280
European?

37efa9e4-1770-4662-b2ee-fc07f62115af-0
00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:06.480
And for years they thought it meant go
away, go away.

75eea895-d50d-46de-8216-307669d218ca-0
00:21:06.920 --> 00:21:10.070
Because when Cook ship was,
when Cook's boats were coming from the

75eea895-d50d-46de-8216-307669d218ca-1
00:21:10.070 --> 00:21:13.880
Endeavour, they write in the journals,
they opposed, they're still on the beach.

47395d03-c950-4d79-a321-2fee02121523-0
00:21:13.880 --> 00:21:16.840
Two men still on the beach opposes and
shouted wara, wara, why?

e722a79d-6daf-405d-a435-8f68c6d7e567-0
00:21:17.240 --> 00:21:19.520
And they always thought it meant go away,
go back.

9a2421e6-4d95-45fa-a610-f9e009307305-0
00:21:19.960 --> 00:21:21.640
And this has been recorded in the
histories.

aab8a5a3-5d97-407d-8ac7-f80df8848b8e-0
00:21:21.640 --> 00:21:24.840
But when we talked to the people,
they said no.

9608044f-1979-48df-9fcb-fa6066b9bb76-0
00:21:24.840 --> 00:21:26.120
The history books got wrong, man.

3d04e4d0-6e77-4745-b2da-5e16a6b9982e-0
00:21:26.840 --> 00:21:27.240
See Cook.

a7388ad5-4401-4d4e-a501-8790f2bee9a7-0
00:21:27.240 --> 00:21:28.920
Cook was breaking protocol.

7f379ffa-25e3-4583-b66f-23534affec13-0
00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:32.720
Because when you come to a new land,
you stop at the border, your wage turn.

e7cffd52-6db2-4d04-adc0-635ec9447dd3-0
00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:36.000
When you're invited ashore,
then you come and cooking these boats.

957b5cf3-7ab6-4f82-b2d7-b39b4722785e-0
00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:39.946
So coming shore,
start throwing rocks saying and wara,

957b5cf3-7ab6-4f82-b2d7-b39b4722785e-1
00:21:39.946 --> 00:21:42.960
wara wara means you were all ghost people.

d92cf3aa-ed05-4f5e-9ad5-8743d210ae60-0
00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:46.000
You were all dead people because you know
you're white.

5c01aa6d-b636-4ff8-b786-119bf4facaec-0
00:21:46.120 --> 00:21:47.120
They stunk a bit.

e75c091a-af98-40e1-9fe9-b5dab016eb59-0
00:21:49.160 --> 00:21:53.343
And so this and up and down the coast we
got this same story that we thought they

e75c091a-af98-40e1-9fe9-b5dab016eb59-1
00:21:53.343 --> 00:21:56.200
thought that was the spirits of their
dead coming back.

f8136e99-0c94-4616-842b-570882a4cf20-0
00:21:56.640 --> 00:22:00.806
Because a lot of places the dead will die
and go away to the West and one day come

f8136e99-0c94-4616-842b-570882a4cf20-1
00:22:00.806 --> 00:22:01.760
back from the east.

202fb72e-7b86-4562-8c9f-d755104e28fc-0
00:22:02.440 --> 00:22:06.120
And they presumed and up in like 1770,
they said they watched them.

7c953adf-7bf7-4d2e-865e-d9d1a885fc22-0
00:22:06.120 --> 00:22:08.400
They're thinking these are your ancestors.

3cd1752a-4ef6-4ae8-9eea-4e55bd6a7cd3-0
00:22:08.840 --> 00:22:09.440
But what happened?

f2884141-0942-470f-81e7-c6d542b1d97b-0
00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:12.400
They've forgotten that law and they don't
understand what plans to say.

fa6fc268-68aa-46da-bd51-40eab848d05b-0
00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:13.520
What are they?

f4cdfe71-8163-471e-b3b2-6ece591819d3-0
00:22:14.080 --> 00:22:17.520
It took a while to figure out there were
men, but not men they'd ever seen.

4fe0669e-1228-459e-8ab1-247a6315879e-0
00:22:18.280 --> 00:22:20.240
That was a weird place 7970.

5d998955-cfd5-40b5-9e48-30df45fd7a48-0
00:22:20.560 --> 00:22:21.120
Very weird.

7e75345c-9a76-4ff1-8c85-2c0ad24295ab-0
00:22:21.120 --> 00:22:24.400
Even the caller place 7970 is a weird
sort of thing.

0d47d271-2e0e-4b51-b733-6f6b3e260a86-0
00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:25.760
That's why you get us a name change.

d5f24860-9652-4f3b-87b8-0678f142ef7c-0
00:22:26.040 --> 00:22:32.318
Halfway up Queensland is a tiny coastal
town called 1770 as Crook landed there in

d5f24860-9652-4f3b-87b8-0678f142ef7c-1
00:22:32.318 --> 00:22:35.840
1770 and there was a festival on at the
time.

c7c53d9f-dcca-41b3-8e41-d1a0aa6a5e53-0
00:22:35.840 --> 00:22:38.800
We would travel on it, yeah,
an Aboriginal festival.

15449d85-f367-4254-a0c2-d3fcb18a141d-0
00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:42.148
So yeah,
spent two days there with them all there,

15449d85-f367-4254-a0c2-d3fcb18a141d-1
00:22:42.148 --> 00:22:44.520
but we had to earn their trust again.

88f39c65-7bbf-47aa-b952-423e36703bb3-0
00:22:44.520 --> 00:22:45.840
Again to earn the trust.

5b167844-a193-48b5-a07c-ac24938f09b0-0
00:22:46.560 --> 00:22:48.630
Well,
it's amazing that these stories have

5b167844-a193-48b5-a07c-ac24938f09b0-1
00:22:48.630 --> 00:22:49.160
persevered.

e3f6f6d9-a488-40dd-a6fc-6a4bdb01397e-0
00:22:49.160 --> 00:22:53.320
And we get that view from the people who
who were there passed down.

eff5ce6a-f28e-498d-907a-a0c09c56786a-0
00:22:53.320 --> 00:22:57.585
And it's surprising,
also not surprising that they haven't

eff5ce6a-f28e-498d-907a-a0c09c56786a-1
00:22:57.585 --> 00:22:59.320
been told or heard this.

4d0639fa-f21b-4ed0-bf57-0227d88ec5a2-0
00:22:59.320 --> 00:23:00.120
God just made us.

5bb1ecb9-a9f8-4366-a10b-7f0f964c53e1-0
00:23:00.120 --> 00:23:03.956
We said, you know,
it wasn't that unique idea to come and

5bb1ecb9-a9f8-4366-a10b-7f0f964c53e1-1
00:23:03.956 --> 00:23:05.280
just talk to people.

f2ec7c2d-93b7-4f51-bf8b-b2734063e27d-0
00:23:05.280 --> 00:23:08.040
And people said it was, oh, my God,
how did you get those stories?

8c7cd46c-01f9-4f3b-8f6f-b408acade64d-0
00:23:08.040 --> 00:23:10.080
Yeah, I said we talked to people.

1bc4d616-78d7-4099-8062-bea89bd707ae-0
00:23:10.760 --> 00:23:11.600
We just asked.

4afc366c-0602-4151-9087-dc44a92e63ef-0
00:23:11.640 --> 00:23:12.200
Just asked.

ad31650a-0752-430f-add1-ff5ff8ae901b-0
00:23:12.320 --> 00:23:12.680
Yeah.

3f28915f-59fd-47d3-b85f-d4c9b40b45aa-0
00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:13.880
Simple.

51e8e3f6-c52e-4ca3-b2c0-9665118a9a0f-0
00:23:14.080 --> 00:23:16.240
I'm surprised it hadn't been done
anywhere before for.

c180f300-d2b8-4e53-a9aa-57827649dd7c-0
00:23:16.600 --> 00:23:16.800
Yeah.

fd0211d2-d28e-488e-b943-492a71449582-0
00:23:16.960 --> 00:23:20.774
And to what extent, Like, you know,
we talk about truth telling and famously

fd0211d2-d28e-488e-b943-492a71449582-1
00:23:20.774 --> 00:23:24.290
with oral histories and so on,
things can get embellished over time or

fd0211d2-d28e-488e-b943-492a71449582-2
00:23:24.290 --> 00:23:26.520
change depending on who's telling the
story.

ec20d878-4702-4bfb-b108-93910d69a835-0
00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:31.134
So what was your view on that and how,
I guess true to the original experience

ec20d878-4702-4bfb-b108-93910d69a835-1
00:23:31.134 --> 00:23:33.960
that these stories still are hundreds of
years later?

f14fd93c-0d86-4744-9485-1ac459fe6818-0
00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:37.200
I would say from a white felt point of
view, we're used to embellishment.

b92e31fd-dbf4-4606-8f62-b73b261d9877-0
00:23:37.800 --> 00:23:40.683
But when you hear a First Nations person
tell an oral story,

b92e31fd-dbf4-4606-8f62-b73b261d9877-1
00:23:40.683 --> 00:23:42.480
it doesn't really get embellished, OK?

ed3fa461-19ce-408f-b303-1063d4b809b4-0
00:23:42.600 --> 00:23:47.240
Because they have a long, long,
long history of oral facts,

ed3fa461-19ce-408f-b303-1063d4b809b4-1
00:23:47.240 --> 00:23:49.560
and stories had to be precise.

0868165e-78da-4f81-8d51-b3a17392a744-0
00:23:49.800 --> 00:23:53.274
Because they would tell you what plants
could be poisonous and they could tell

0868165e-78da-4f81-8d51-b3a17392a744-1
00:23:53.274 --> 00:23:56.528
you how to behave in a certain way,
and there could be little bits around

0868165e-78da-4f81-8d51-b3a17392a744-2
00:23:56.528 --> 00:23:57.319
that would change.

ed22856b-9d44-45c7-bde6-c8b1e07efbb2-0
00:23:57.320 --> 00:24:00.080
But the core,
central facts would never alter.

58718ec8-d33a-4eed-bd37-cd5eff627e3b-0
00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:04.084
And we'd find that if we'd hear a story
from one person there,

58718ec8-d33a-4eed-bd37-cd5eff627e3b-1
00:24:04.084 --> 00:24:08.240
another person further away, the facts,
parts of the story would not alter.

22d838ba-c518-446c-b807-4b819eb6ed41-0
00:24:08.680 --> 00:24:09.640
It'd be the same.

6f638340-0b06-43c3-81ac-ad3ad604f64a-0
00:24:09.680 --> 00:24:10.080
Yeah.

860a879d-d578-44e4-bb83-037bf764b153-0
00:24:10.840 --> 00:24:16.680
Same as like men's areas and women's
areas and family areas.

e6fe0e01-8b29-45eb-b240-ada82771555c-0
00:24:17.000 --> 00:24:22.556
What you've got to know those within
country as well and they hand them things

e6fe0e01-8b29-45eb-b240-ada82771555c-1
00:24:22.556 --> 00:24:23.400
down orally.

6fc4b91e-74e0-4b88-905d-01792f78e734-0
00:24:23.560 --> 00:24:23.960
Yeah.

cd63cb41-0a97-46de-b04e-02b5d720e857-0
00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:27.315
And you know,
we're used to the written word being

cd63cb41-0a97-46de-b04e-02b5d720e857-1
00:24:27.315 --> 00:24:32.450
gospel and oral testimony being a bit
dodgy of the indigenous communities that

cd63cb41-0a97-46de-b04e-02b5d720e857-2
00:24:32.450 --> 00:24:34.400
don't seem never changed much.

3f7f51d0-a1c2-4c51-b9e2-0ba40c1f31b1-0
00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:38.313
I guess it's it's the difficulty of
marrying those two ideas together because

3f7f51d0-a1c2-4c51-b9e2-0ba40c1f31b1-1
00:24:38.313 --> 00:24:39.640
we talk about storytelling.

cdc31a0e-7bdd-4b69-aee5-3ecebce4841f-0
00:24:39.880 --> 00:24:43.749
When we think of storytelling,
it's often fiction or embellished versus

cdc31a0e-7bdd-4b69-aee5-3ecebce4841f-1
00:24:43.749 --> 00:24:46.543
oral history,
which we'd like to think is more fact

cdc31a0e-7bdd-4b69-aee5-3ecebce4841f-2
00:24:46.543 --> 00:24:46.920
driven.

eecb9a0b-b7ee-48e1-9903-83f3551a5b14-0
00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:52.240
And the objective is to communicate fact
rather than to entertain or surprise or

eecb9a0b-b7ee-48e1-9903-83f3551a5b14-1
00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:54.440
shock people so they never change.

c9108a0a-e2dc-434d-bdbd-89a1cfaff440-0
00:24:54.440 --> 00:24:56.400
Some inherit parts.

564f3aea-2603-4acb-90a7-be8c68b4d28d-0
00:24:56.400 --> 00:25:02.737
Don't they have a generations generation
passed down and made sure it doesn't

564f3aea-2603-4acb-90a7-be8c68b4d28d-1
00:25:02.737 --> 00:25:04.200
change on purpose?

d15c6a9b-bf4a-404b-a290-1a048716db44-0
00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:05.320
Yeah, that intention.

7e0bbc9e-a9d4-47d6-b3c3-33e7f2bdc71c-0
00:25:05.400 --> 00:25:05.720
Yeah.

cc15800f-fbd0-4230-a871-9f1c46cf0e3b-0
00:25:05.720 --> 00:25:08.280
And, you know, and kids are drilled,
you know, tell us back that story.

b189657a-c1d8-4b3b-8a7c-34d226daa220-0
00:25:08.280 --> 00:25:10.040
No, that bit's wrong, right?

102eab47-2dc5-441b-9f44-4b14d530f015-0
00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:14.681
Well, fascinating,
and it's great to hear these stories

102eab47-2dc5-441b-9f44-4b14d530f015-1
00:25:14.681 --> 00:25:16.840
being told and hopefully people will keep
listening.

d6c55a61-2f96-4b13-8562-2419f782c16a-0
00:25:17.120 --> 00:25:18.320
Thank you very much for thank you.

fddd054f-655d-4f34-89e5-81b6f658ba9a-0
00:25:18.680 --> 00:25:20.040
Thank you spending time with us.

5857ac4c-15f4-45ea-bc63-25de0a555c40-0
00:25:22.560 --> 00:25:26.149
This has been a special presentation of
the Not Quite Right podcast in

5857ac4c-15f4-45ea-bc63-25de0a555c40-1
00:25:26.149 --> 00:25:28.880
collaboration with Words on the Ways
Riders Festival.

1c37ead8-8182-462e-8e17-9b714dbe7dd8-0
00:25:29.280 --> 00:25:32.853
Check the show notes For more information
about Words on the Waves and the books

1c37ead8-8182-462e-8e17-9b714dbe7dd8-1
00:25:32.853 --> 00:25:34.000
mentioned in this episode.

4e03293a-6859-4811-8630-49e24c07c9d3-0
00:25:34.360 --> 00:25:37.335
If you're new to the podcast,
please join us again for our regular

4e03293a-6859-4811-8630-49e24c07c9d3-1
00:25:37.335 --> 00:25:40.400
episodes where we talk about media,
culture, and the art of writing.