WEBVTT

314cc505-3d8e-4d7f-9ff0-9f11b83a06b2-0
00:00:13.360 --> 00:00:14.880
Something doesn't seem quite right.

6cd4b542-e132-4bc1-af74-8a1eca715516-0
00:00:16.480 --> 00:00:17.560
Welcome's not quite right.

4ed1e1df-d95b-4f12-a11d-b8746a0c54f9-0
00:00:17.600 --> 00:00:19.160
My name's Ed and I'm Amanda.

0ef22157-9046-4db0-bb6a-5411ebf1b517-0
00:00:19.280 --> 00:00:24.938
We are here at Words on the Waves 2026
and we're speaking to Kate Holden,

0ef22157-9046-4db0-bb6a-5411ebf1b517-1
00:00:24.938 --> 00:00:27.920
who is the author of The Ruin of Magic.

bc8d0319-994d-428d-b05c-386c3bf66dfe-0
00:00:28.160 --> 00:00:32.004
And we chatted about the horrors
basically of the world and,

bc8d0319-994d-428d-b05c-386c3bf66dfe-1
00:00:32.004 --> 00:00:35.722
and maybe a little bit of hope in amongst
all of that and,

bc8d0319-994d-428d-b05c-386c3bf66dfe-2
00:00:35.722 --> 00:00:39.439
and how we move towards a life that's
sort of full of joy.

316b54f0-8451-45ca-8194-17e12ea32561-0
00:00:39.920 --> 00:00:42.880
And I think that's a conversation that we
all need to have at the moment.

d3f2740c-0016-48d6-ba79-090a82316a0e-0
00:00:42.880 --> 00:00:44.680
So in these trying times.

c7648d92-1466-4b33-9a14-3e78bb14af47-0
00:00:45.400 --> 00:00:47.720
So here's our discussion with Kate Holden.

400d3d1a-6df9-4555-9572-3cae662137cf-0
00:00:50.400 --> 00:00:53.920
So we are here at Words on the Waves with
Kate Holden.

534882a1-0090-4872-a422-6f86c2bbb662-0
00:00:53.920 --> 00:00:54.640
How are you, Kate?

1bc395f5-a21b-43c5-b194-9966b47067a5-0
00:00:54.960 --> 00:00:55.920
I'm really well as wordy.

9b0ae07f-8068-46a8-9bb5-cc364e21dabf-0
00:00:55.920 --> 00:00:56.440
Thank you.

d969e8e9-397b-4fa4-ac63-3903370fe3e7-0
00:00:56.800 --> 00:00:59.680
So tell us about what brings you to Words
on the Waves this year.

15861339-57c1-4ee6-87e2-c635c5f7e99c-0
00:00:59.680 --> 00:01:01.360
Oh, well, this is my first time.

299d0c33-36cb-45f7-9239-2373f7b51fc5-0
00:01:01.360 --> 00:01:04.600
I have not been here before,
but I am very impressed with it.

059411df-8156-47d5-844b-59288988a258-0
00:01:05.040 --> 00:01:08.774
And I'm here because I've,
we've got a new book called The Ruin of

059411df-8156-47d5-844b-59288988a258-1
00:01:08.774 --> 00:01:11.226
Magic,
which is my 4th book and it's called

059411df-8156-47d5-844b-59288988a258-2
00:01:11.226 --> 00:01:13.400
Longing and Belonging in Strange times.

446e4ece-2d13-40c2-8bff-5c400413c1e1-0
00:01:13.400 --> 00:01:15.600
And I,
I thought if I came up with that title,

446e4ece-2d13-40c2-8bff-5c400413c1e1-1
00:01:15.600 --> 00:01:17.240
I thought that pretty much hits it.

5837683a-f49d-4122-b68a-bf661f8507ef-0
00:01:17.680 --> 00:01:21.125
It's a little bit hard to describe
because it's six different essays cover a

5837683a-f49d-4122-b68a-bf661f8507ef-1
00:01:21.125 --> 00:01:23.317
bit of ground,
but it's all about being in this,

5837683a-f49d-4122-b68a-bf661f8507ef-2
00:01:23.317 --> 00:01:25.554
you know,
strange modern world of ours and how do

5837683a-f49d-4122-b68a-bf661f8507ef-3
00:01:25.554 --> 00:01:26.359
we find our place.

748df618-08bd-4b63-b12a-b49632a42205-0
00:01:26.560 --> 00:01:30.120
So what is it that you would like people
to know about your book?

d834dea9-313b-4a08-b97f-9d7940f78002-0
00:01:31.200 --> 00:01:34.037
Well,
I am on a panel in shortly with one other

d834dea9-313b-4a08-b97f-9d7940f78002-1
00:01:34.037 --> 00:01:37.820
author, Jennifer Mills,
who's been writing a book of the Earth,

d834dea9-313b-4a08-b97f-9d7940f78002-2
00:01:37.820 --> 00:01:40.480
the Divisorski,
which is on a similar theme.

f51e1cad-ab47-4dbd-a972-30ded4e57869-0
00:01:40.480 --> 00:01:45.041
And I guess we'll be talking about what
is very germane to the the subject of my

f51e1cad-ab47-4dbd-a972-30ded4e57869-1
00:01:45.041 --> 00:01:47.519
book,
which is the how to bring enchantment

f51e1cad-ab47-4dbd-a972-30ded4e57869-2
00:01:47.519 --> 00:01:50.560
back into the kind of the dreary grey of
modern life.

7905da85-07a4-406e-8abb-8b38943971de-0
00:01:50.960 --> 00:01:54.200
And I in my book,
it's not a 15 ways to re enchant your

7905da85-07a4-406e-8abb-8b38943971de-1
00:01:54.200 --> 00:01:58.018
life kind of mystical thing,
but it's just a look at how maybe we

7905da85-07a4-406e-8abb-8b38943971de-2
00:01:58.018 --> 00:02:02.416
don't even notice how grey and drab and
and kind of silenced our lives have

7905da85-07a4-406e-8abb-8b38943971de-3
00:02:02.416 --> 00:02:03.399
become sometimes.

d89e81f8-b60f-4b3b-93e0-06cf78aeec95-0
00:02:03.840 --> 00:02:06.760
And I think noticing is a really good
place to start.

c678cd3f-ebf4-497e-9d66-a3c9017b618d-0
00:02:06.760 --> 00:02:10.358
And then once you've noticed things,
not getting stuck in the in the despair,

c678cd3f-ebf4-497e-9d66-a3c9017b618d-1
00:02:10.358 --> 00:02:13.818
but then moving through and remembering
that we've always known ways to be

c678cd3f-ebf4-497e-9d66-a3c9017b618d-2
00:02:13.818 --> 00:02:14.280
enchanted.

057d8ffa-0f2e-40f5-b64b-cf6f2af915b0-0
00:02:14.840 --> 00:02:18.238
We were actually just talking before we
were recording about, I guess,

057d8ffa-0f2e-40f5-b64b-cf6f2af915b0-1
00:02:18.238 --> 00:02:20.680
lack of connection and things in the
modern world.

f52e405b-a9f5-45d5-91f4-a6834af942a8-0
00:02:20.760 --> 00:02:24.760
What kind of things do you think are
missing from the modern experience?

48a29b0b-cf93-4f87-8123-d1843f6aebdd-0
00:02:25.440 --> 00:02:30.809
Well, I speak as one of myself, I suppose,
but I'm struck by the narcissism that we,

48a29b0b-cf93-4f87-8123-d1843f6aebdd-1
00:02:30.809 --> 00:02:35.104
you know, we live amongst,
which is that people are forgetting that

48a29b0b-cf93-4f87-8123-d1843f6aebdd-2
00:02:35.104 --> 00:02:37.000
other people are other people.

4830c226-3317-47ab-98d5-a57774c4acdf-0
00:02:37.320 --> 00:02:41.368
And I think that's, you know,
you really do have to remember that when

4830c226-3317-47ab-98d5-a57774c4acdf-1
00:02:41.368 --> 00:02:45.245
you're working in society,
because if you see every other person as

4830c226-3317-47ab-98d5-a57774c4acdf-2
00:02:45.245 --> 00:02:49.863
an impediment or something to get past or
something to beat or something to race

4830c226-3317-47ab-98d5-a57774c4acdf-3
00:02:49.863 --> 00:02:53.056
towards, you know,
race against towards something else,

4830c226-3317-47ab-98d5-a57774c4acdf-4
00:02:53.056 --> 00:02:55.280
then you live in a lonely world, right?

a8e8904f-634c-442e-8458-6f6903b6c546-0
00:02:55.680 --> 00:02:57.720
And other people are all your enemy.

7c2ee30b-8ad6-4767-93cb-a51b6e750183-0
00:02:57.840 --> 00:03:02.741
I think our society is tending to squish
us towards that conclusion because it's

7c2ee30b-8ad6-4767-93cb-a51b6e750183-1
00:03:02.741 --> 00:03:05.646
quite,
there's quite a lot of kind of predatory

7c2ee30b-8ad6-4767-93cb-a51b6e750183-2
00:03:05.646 --> 00:03:09.398
behaviour out there,
either from kind of the commercial world

7c2ee30b-8ad6-4767-93cb-a51b6e750183-3
00:03:09.398 --> 00:03:13.816
trying to like get stuff off you and
invading your space or really other

7c2ee30b-8ad6-4767-93cb-a51b6e750183-4
00:03:13.816 --> 00:03:14.239
people.

920cd63f-dced-4a44-a7c8-4614c869ef87-0
00:03:14.560 --> 00:03:18.419
But that embattled kind of mentality,
I think it's so perilous because you

920cd63f-dced-4a44-a7c8-4614c869ef87-1
00:03:18.419 --> 00:03:22.279
start forgetting how wonderful other
people are and that they're also your

920cd63f-dced-4a44-a7c8-4614c869ef87-2
00:03:22.279 --> 00:03:22.640
allies.

60a57666-5ca7-42e9-b31c-513ea0b208fd-0
00:03:23.000 --> 00:03:26.518
And I think as well,
we live in that commercial world 24/7 now

60a57666-5ca7-42e9-b31c-513ea0b208fd-1
00:03:26.518 --> 00:03:30.985
because we spend a lot of time online,
whereas previously we may have been more

60a57666-5ca7-42e9-b31c-513ea0b208fd-2
00:03:30.985 --> 00:03:34.280
social and more spending time in actual
real world groups.

943ed6ad-4cd5-46c4-b43d-674fc04ff053-0
00:03:34.280 --> 00:03:35.240
So I don't know.

59c642fe-e982-4634-96ce-ff646e6be15d-0
00:03:35.240 --> 00:03:36.920
What do you think is the antidote to that?

c28e690b-b740-4c62-b0c0-449e07ec8fb4-0
00:03:37.320 --> 00:03:37.680
I don't know.

748044e6-e9df-4269-9f1e-6fdfe5e3fba1-0
00:03:37.680 --> 00:03:40.416
I mean,
I think there's a lot of fear about other

748044e6-e9df-4269-9f1e-6fdfe5e3fba1-1
00:03:40.416 --> 00:03:40.800
people.

cac89ec1-7e82-46a4-bf3d-74d6e9eda7c8-0
00:03:40.840 --> 00:03:44.733
The contagion of other people maybe is
something that we're afraid of it

cac89ec1-7e82-46a4-bf3d-74d6e9eda7c8-1
00:03:44.733 --> 00:03:49.000
contagion literally in terms of viruses,
but contagion more kind of psychically

cac89ec1-7e82-46a4-bf3d-74d6e9eda7c8-2
00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:53.160
that you might be somehow infected with
the wrong view by someone else or the

cac89ec1-7e82-46a4-bf3d-74d6e9eda7c8-3
00:03:53.160 --> 00:03:54.120
wrong association.

e0a616de-7dc8-483e-b753-495b2948e7e8-0
00:03:54.120 --> 00:03:56.600
There's a paranoia I think in a lot of
circles.

0cdcc30d-3f2f-409e-8f62-1867a2757cfd-0
00:03:56.960 --> 00:04:00.400
And then also people are just not got
enough time or energy to socialise.

510fa889-4ac8-402b-875e-c9988926faa2-0
00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:01.760
I know I'm terribly guilty of this.

ac83bccc-676e-444e-94d3-115e0f1ff1b1-0
00:04:01.760 --> 00:04:05.208
I go home and I think, well,
I could go out and see people,

ac83bccc-676e-444e-94d3-115e0f1ff1b1-1
00:04:05.208 --> 00:04:06.760
but I could just stay home.

e1baeea0-8ce4-49dd-ae04-2251623d3197-0
00:04:07.160 --> 00:04:10.535
And being of a kind of introverted nature
in the 1st place, the,

e1baeea0-8ce4-49dd-ae04-2251623d3197-1
00:04:10.535 --> 00:04:13.080
the scales tip pretty fast to the,
to the couch.

c869dde1-84ca-40dc-9f9b-c4997cbcfed4-0
00:04:13.480 --> 00:04:15.926
And I, I really,
I don't know that everyone has to go out

c869dde1-84ca-40dc-9f9b-c4997cbcfed4-1
00:04:15.926 --> 00:04:17.360
and madly, you know, gallivanting.

b746733d-3538-4262-8efe-023ba8e092de-0
00:04:17.680 --> 00:04:22.419
But remembering that seeking of a
people's company is not a trial or an

b746733d-3538-4262-8efe-023ba8e092de-1
00:04:22.419 --> 00:04:22.880
ordeal.

6fd0855d-609c-4837-837f-65557d106724-0
00:04:22.880 --> 00:04:26.322
It's supposed to be joyful and also
sometimes a surprise because you just

6fd0855d-609c-4837-837f-65557d106724-1
00:04:26.322 --> 00:04:29.160
don't always know what you're actually
going to get, do you?

8392f029-a896-4e1b-b2c9-b6bfd5e1bb00-0
00:04:29.400 --> 00:04:32.470
Yeah,
there's probably that underlying anxiety

8392f029-a896-4e1b-b2c9-b6bfd5e1bb00-1
00:04:32.470 --> 00:04:35.475
that precedes any kind of social
interaction,

8392f029-a896-4e1b-b2c9-b6bfd5e1bb00-2
00:04:35.475 --> 00:04:40.440
and it only gets worse when you feed it
by avoiding the social interaction.

302c7bb4-b913-4aaa-ad1f-89087140b0aa-0
00:04:40.440 --> 00:04:44.723
But I think it's interesting that writing
in particular is one of those fields

302c7bb4-b913-4aaa-ad1f-89087140b0aa-1
00:04:44.723 --> 00:04:47.760
where you don't necessarily compete
against each other.

782ea1bb-f208-4909-945a-4b31350d951f-0
00:04:47.760 --> 00:04:52.005
You know, there's always more readers,
you know, then there are books really,

782ea1bb-f208-4909-945a-4b31350d951f-1
00:04:52.005 --> 00:04:54.400
because it takes so long to produce a
book.

55bc29e4-cc95-4059-9109-fe65d1fdb43f-0
00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:59.202
And so you can see each other more as
contemporaries rather than like your

55bc29e4-cc95-4059-9109-fe65d1fdb43f-1
00:04:59.202 --> 00:04:59.920
competition.

26c75cd1-116f-43b5-878a-f6e42c2d2bc9-0
00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:02.800
Whereas in some fields it's maybe not the
case.

11235432-ec6a-4930-86a6-5a9a6332defb-0
00:05:02.960 --> 00:05:04.920
I think we all feel we're in the trenches
together.

6fc4f11c-0035-4beb-864f-5474ca8dc55d-0
00:05:04.960 --> 00:05:06.240
Yeah, yeah.

c32bec68-0abe-4870-94d8-75417f38f9fd-0
00:05:06.520 --> 00:05:07.160
In Battlefield.

9f680067-2e9d-4364-a18a-450aa561a776-0
00:05:07.360 --> 00:05:08.520
Yeah, definitely.

3bb717c9-2da5-4d85-add2-95d0492494af-0
00:05:08.520 --> 00:05:12.134
I've I've always really enjoyed the
writing world because it's been very

3bb717c9-2da5-4d85-add2-95d0492494af-1
00:05:12.134 --> 00:05:14.560
embracing from my debut,
which was 20 years ago.

71d26c2d-bf8d-4881-bdc2-0d7c289017cb-0
00:05:14.960 --> 00:05:18.240
People went out of their way to guide me
and help me and encourage me.

62b5bd3e-ffec-4ac2-9b73-6e65ac4d46fe-0
00:05:18.240 --> 00:05:21.823
I was really lucky before I did my very
first ever big public appearance,

62b5bd3e-ffec-4ac2-9b73-6e65ac4d46fe-1
00:05:21.823 --> 00:05:23.760
which was a big one, and I was very shy.

ab3e6e36-508f-4f5d-baaf-2e76d270dc32-0
00:05:24.120 --> 00:05:26.000
And someone said go and talk to Christos
Cholkos.

42f27443-d453-42b1-be0b-42be24ebd667-0
00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:26.960
He's lovely.

8bcb92bd-e947-4720-9c3f-4c231a6c6f24-0
00:05:26.960 --> 00:05:28.120
He's gonna be on the panel with you.

92ce25f8-4ab7-4768-9fea-451d4b412582-0
00:05:28.120 --> 00:05:29.920
He's really nice with new writers.

162c1b6f-9de9-48da-bcf6-250d31b0b531-0
00:05:29.920 --> 00:05:30.520
And he was.

b2c81f58-0a8f-4cba-abde-3f5db3d72304-0
00:05:30.520 --> 00:05:31.640
He took me out for a coffee.

cae4cb6e-97c5-47d2-8ab7-2fb5dd310c18-0
00:05:31.640 --> 00:05:32.840
He posed me down.

a76c2775-074e-4167-9ac0-348127f8a961-0
00:05:32.840 --> 00:05:34.240
He said nice things.

2df70ea8-fdd1-44eb-9acc-9f554198c26b-0
00:05:34.280 --> 00:05:35.880
He said you know, you'll be fine.

a9e60709-7a57-4e80-ac9a-24aec1ebf8df-0
00:05:36.240 --> 00:05:37.280
And it was true.

6f0c1a7c-f168-4cd5-907e-523165c4ff51-0
00:05:37.280 --> 00:05:40.680
Everyone's always been really lovely and
the social life of it is great.

7ab13988-4ad2-477e-99e5-625f49eaba6f-0
00:05:40.840 --> 00:05:42.640
They often get people who are a little
bit nervous.

30248b51-18e9-4088-80d6-385d6acc86b6-0
00:05:42.640 --> 00:05:45.560
So there's sometimes a bit of like
nervous Jabba.

e321bbdf-8770-41fb-948a-2346d12cd207-0
00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:46.240
Yeah.

2a06dbfe-1a91-4ff5-9f31-28db6cb570e4-0
00:05:46.680 --> 00:05:49.472
But, you know, I,
I really do think that there's a very

2a06dbfe-1a91-4ff5-9f31-28db6cb570e4-1
00:05:49.472 --> 00:05:50.520
collegial atmosphere.

f9219775-80e6-481c-ba89-2be9ee4be200-0
00:05:50.520 --> 00:05:52.800
And also a lot of us teach writing as
well.

14254b8c-66c5-4f3a-98eb-dd35a51a9334-0
00:05:52.800 --> 00:05:55.985
So we're also bringing up new, new voices,
not seeing them as a threat,

14254b8c-66c5-4f3a-98eb-dd35a51a9334-1
00:05:55.985 --> 00:05:58.330
but thinking that, you know,
there's plenty of room,

14254b8c-66c5-4f3a-98eb-dd35a51a9334-2
00:05:58.330 --> 00:06:01.560
even though publishing is in such a,
you know, tight squeeze these days.

69032247-9493-45bc-86f2-e9168a428904-0
00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:04.444
Yeah, we're,
we're all very much of A particular type,

69032247-9493-45bc-86f2-e9168a428904-1
00:06:04.444 --> 00:06:07.560
I guess writers, but again,
like we were very varied as well.

e4d0594e-db37-4f62-862b-b0287c32016f-0
00:06:07.560 --> 00:06:11.080
So we can enjoy each other's company and
exploring the differences that we have.

edc08848-bd7f-4868-94d5-6a6c4c5ade19-0
00:06:11.080 --> 00:06:13.262
So coming to a writers festival is great
for facts,

edc08848-bd7f-4868-94d5-6a6c4c5ade19-1
00:06:13.262 --> 00:06:15.320
to hear everyone else's opinions and
experience.

1640fb61-9e4b-4637-8eed-736d2d4b01b6-0
00:06:15.320 --> 00:06:16.800
Yes, absolutely.

b0f01053-3309-4a5d-a828-6e367bafc525-0
00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:19.520
And I mean,
you've made a career out of writing now.

27029a84-f487-490a-ae5a-923f1c54e27b-0
00:06:19.520 --> 00:06:24.086
So if you look back 20 years ago,
is that a goal that you had or did you

27029a84-f487-490a-ae5a-923f1c54e27b-1
00:06:24.086 --> 00:06:25.400
kind of fall into it?

2987b86b-228e-4b19-afc5-6446963e9f56-0
00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:29.390
Oh, well, I, I,
I set myself towards the Cliff age and I

2987b86b-228e-4b19-afc5-6446963e9f56-1
00:06:29.390 --> 00:06:30.920
chunked myself over it.

133bcfbf-d267-481d-8a91-8cc3de4975fb-0
00:06:30.920 --> 00:06:31.280
OK.

bcfede5f-6cf9-4b3f-ba8f-ec6c59bba048-0
00:06:31.280 --> 00:06:33.120
I was out of position in my life.

952f645c-41fa-40b9-8866-d70becaa149f-0
00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:37.625
I hadn't no other options apart from to
do the extremely impractical one of

952f645c-41fa-40b9-8866-d70becaa149f-1
00:06:37.625 --> 00:06:41.537
signing up to a graduate diploma in
creative writing and editing,

952f645c-41fa-40b9-8866-d70becaa149f-2
00:06:41.537 --> 00:06:46.279
which was not the most vocationally kind
of likely thing that I knew I'd be OK.

8cf01f2c-80e2-4031-b641-c79d59ab84f7-0
00:06:46.440 --> 00:06:48.720
I knew that was where I was going to find
my people.

293498dc-28bb-45fb-bade-126faab82b58-0
00:06:49.040 --> 00:06:50.480
And I did an out of that programme.

8b3181a8-531d-47eb-a09d-72f646c69a57-0
00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:53.656
I got my first book published and so I've
been professional writer ever since and

8b3181a8-531d-47eb-a09d-72f646c69a57-1
00:06:53.656 --> 00:06:56.640
I'm I'm very glad because I honestly
don't know what else I would have done.

9b7c2003-690c-4e25-b873-599fe89cb8a4-0
00:06:56.760 --> 00:06:56.920
Yeah.

9545bc86-b34e-46d5-b609-5e31b1d82cda-0
00:06:56.920 --> 00:06:59.960
Hard to look back now and imagine it any,
any other way.

dc665548-cb33-4c86-9dda-94651488f558-0
00:06:59.960 --> 00:07:00.720
Yeah, yeah.

818017b3-fa62-465c-a1c7-452cdaf5ef4e-0
00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:01.680
But I had good instincts.

05a63f16-e08c-4d19-a225-c9cd6b75b292-0
00:07:01.680 --> 00:07:04.162
I think I took 3,
three tries tries to get into that

05a63f16-e08c-4d19-a225-c9cd6b75b292-1
00:07:04.162 --> 00:07:07.160
programme and I kept trying and
eventually they they let me in.

f26a0344-d4fc-456e-a6c7-792eb422e62e-0
00:07:08.040 --> 00:07:11.623
And I've just actually this week I signed
up to go back and do an author talk at

f26a0344-d4fc-456e-a6c7-792eb422e62e-1
00:07:11.623 --> 00:07:14.365
the programme, which is a nice, you know,
go back and as the,

f26a0344-d4fc-456e-a6c7-792eb422e62e-2
00:07:14.365 --> 00:07:15.559
as the adult kind of thing.

89d0eb3b-a281-4631-9681-354c1cacbbdd-0
00:07:15.640 --> 00:07:16.080
That's it.

13f4ffea-282c-4a04-aabf-f95bdc5ae542-0
00:07:16.200 --> 00:07:18.520
So The Ruin of Magic is your latest book.

66512f6f-d2c7-4587-8eff-df7460f341f9-0
00:07:18.520 --> 00:07:22.130
How the themes that you're tackling,
are they consistent across your writing

66512f6f-d2c7-4587-8eff-df7460f341f9-1
00:07:22.130 --> 00:07:24.240
or have you previously explored other
ideas?

91caa316-e099-4f71-81d9-5cae27052964-0
00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:25.400
This is a new direction for you.

d8906253-f8a2-4981-b377-6103dbbe7e07-0
00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:29.116
It does seem like a bit of a change in
direction for me because this is a book

d8906253-f8a2-4981-b377-6103dbbe7e07-1
00:07:29.116 --> 00:07:31.474
of 6 essays,
kind of literary essays I suppose you'd

d8906253-f8a2-4981-b377-6103dbbe7e07-2
00:07:31.474 --> 00:07:31.919
call them.

b6f1d3e8-32a1-47df-8bf1-5a904bd8d3ab-0
00:07:32.120 --> 00:07:33.800
And my first two books were memoirs.

00248d27-01ac-47f6-a793-4adab0e22ca5-0
00:07:34.160 --> 00:07:37.022
And then my third book was a very
different thing,

00248d27-01ac-47f6-a793-4adab0e22ca5-1
00:07:37.022 --> 00:07:41.006
which was a kind of a combined history,
true crime, cultural critique,

00248d27-01ac-47f6-a793-4adab0e22ca5-2
00:07:41.006 --> 00:07:45.496
a discussion about a whole lot of things
that centring on environmentally based

00248d27-01ac-47f6-a793-4adab0e22ca5-3
00:07:45.496 --> 00:07:47.965
murder,
and a review of kind of Australia's

00248d27-01ac-47f6-a793-4adab0e22ca5-4
00:07:47.965 --> 00:07:48.919
colonial history.

819cdaa2-a373-487f-82f8-dec55c906b77-0
00:07:48.920 --> 00:07:52.640
So it was a bit of a lot of different
things, and this seems very different.

22355b4e-3042-444e-9e77-2afd82cdb56a-0
00:07:52.640 --> 00:07:55.241
This is again, kind of quite personal,
personal essays,

22355b4e-3042-444e-9e77-2afd82cdb56a-1
00:07:55.241 --> 00:07:59.143
but I feel like it relates to all of them
because it's got the kind of the personal

22355b4e-3042-444e-9e77-2afd82cdb56a-2
00:07:59.143 --> 00:08:01.280
perspective that I had in my first two
books.

9e3f0b1a-719d-4b5f-b305-0fb68602e2ce-0
00:08:01.640 --> 00:08:04.830
It's got my kind of questing curiosity
and well,

9e3f0b1a-719d-4b5f-b305-0fb68602e2ce-1
00:08:04.830 --> 00:08:07.240
I should say Bamboozlement the World.

55ea6c9f-9a2f-49b1-89be-4b6615e3f668-0
00:08:07.680 --> 00:08:10.680
And my first two books were partly about
my naivety.

b2df2e70-cb20-4a65-ab8f-876ed7dd066e-0
00:08:11.000 --> 00:08:15.337
And then it's got this interest in
reviewing where we've come from and why

b2df2e70-cb20-4a65-ab8f-876ed7dd066e-1
00:08:15.337 --> 00:08:18.923
we are as we are now,
which I was working through in my third

b2df2e70-cb20-4a65-ab8f-876ed7dd066e-2
00:08:18.923 --> 00:08:20.080
book, The Winter Rd.

c4e6fb1f-2c76-4a99-9a6f-dd55996efbfb-0
00:08:20.600 --> 00:08:24.236
And it's also just I guess about legacies
like the like the other ones,

c4e6fb1f-2c76-4a99-9a6f-dd55996efbfb-1
00:08:24.236 --> 00:08:28.226
which is that we have set up a whole lot
of things in our world and, you know,

c4e6fb1f-2c76-4a99-9a6f-dd55996efbfb-2
00:08:28.226 --> 00:08:31.105
through history of colonisation and
Western mentalities,

c4e6fb1f-2c76-4a99-9a6f-dd55996efbfb-3
00:08:31.105 --> 00:08:32.520
philosophies and literature.

856caa32-1c40-4613-b602-7462dd895530-0
00:08:32.800 --> 00:08:36.570
I'm tracing partly where have we come
through and why have we ended up here

856caa32-1c40-4613-b602-7462dd895530-1
00:08:36.570 --> 00:08:37.960
with the mix that we've got?

8d1e40bd-355b-4cb7-91fe-a3b65032bc58-0
00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:41.108
And in fact,
what could we maybe ****** back from the

8d1e40bd-355b-4cb7-91fe-a3b65032bc58-1
00:08:41.108 --> 00:08:41.400
past?

61935db9-7668-42ed-827e-d04ecec6bc0a-0
00:08:41.480 --> 00:08:43.891
Having said that,
I've got to just mentioned that my book

61935db9-7668-42ed-827e-d04ecec6bc0a-1
00:08:43.891 --> 00:08:47.093
is also a little bit of a critique of
nostalgia because as soon as I go, oh,

61935db9-7668-42ed-827e-d04ecec6bc0a-2
00:08:47.093 --> 00:08:48.840
it was so much nicer in the past, I think.

4807e668-51c5-41b5-9688-727798a81f66-0
00:08:49.040 --> 00:08:49.200
Ohh.

1cdfd303-6600-4a29-b371-308e19b70e36-0
00:08:49.200 --> 00:08:50.600
But was it really, Yeah.

ce1ac457-3e33-4a3d-ad11-2c7bfb0e79b9-0
00:08:50.800 --> 00:08:54.948
Or, or who am I getting, you know, into a,
onto a couch with if I start saying those

ce1ac457-3e33-4a3d-ad11-2c7bfb0e79b9-1
00:08:54.948 --> 00:08:55.680
kind of things?

ed0114bf-ee8a-44df-9777-baee8ddf29d8-0
00:08:56.120 --> 00:09:01.411
So it's it's a book which is really about
me questioning why do I feel so lonely

ed0114bf-ee8a-44df-9777-baee8ddf29d8-1
00:09:01.411 --> 00:09:03.240
and alienated in this world?

63097386-2fc9-4e35-b942-e4f0a505969d-0
00:09:03.560 --> 00:09:04.920
And am I the only one?

e75afa3d-99aa-4de5-96c6-5da43a90ba3c-0
00:09:04.920 --> 00:09:05.560
I think not.

7cde3ae3-fa05-4b2d-ae13-0a86b4b6b79c-0
00:09:05.920 --> 00:09:09.440
And then how have we got here and what
can we maybe do about that?

c51c7aaf-d9db-445a-9a51-467690f9fe41-0
00:09:09.640 --> 00:09:11.531
I mean,
it's an interesting way to approach that

c51c7aaf-d9db-445a-9a51-467690f9fe41-1
00:09:11.531 --> 00:09:11.840
problem.

9606eb58-08c8-4323-9eee-51087512a6ec-0
00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:15.024
If you realise you're feeling lonely and
disconnected,

9606eb58-08c8-4323-9eee-51087512a6ec-1
00:09:15.024 --> 00:09:17.920
to then go on your own and write a book
about it.

2e6fd369-10de-467c-8968-a8b6772f9e1d-0
00:09:18.120 --> 00:09:20.195
It was kind of like get out of, you know,
like,

2e6fd369-10de-467c-8968-a8b6772f9e1d-1
00:09:20.195 --> 00:09:22.703
like getting out of the situation 'cause
I could say, ah,

2e6fd369-10de-467c-8968-a8b6772f9e1d-2
00:09:22.703 --> 00:09:26.120
I'm lonely and alienated because I'm
writing a book and I simply must sit here

2e6fd369-10de-467c-8968-a8b6772f9e1d-3
00:09:26.120 --> 00:09:28.541
at my cafes reading, you know,
German poetry look like,

2e6fd369-10de-467c-8968-a8b6772f9e1d-4
00:09:28.541 --> 00:09:29.320
in like a lunatic.

15fe6fc4-49b0-478a-a203-e1f98cee0f86-0
00:09:29.880 --> 00:09:32.628
And I live in a, in a community,
which is not unlike here,

15fe6fc4-49b0-478a-a203-e1f98cee0f86-1
00:09:32.628 --> 00:09:33.840
here in the Central Coast.

577eba3e-2a43-4601-b412-5ad531f832a7-0
00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:36.940
So there's lots of Beachy people in,
you know, leisure wear And there's me,

577eba3e-2a43-4601-b412-5ad531f832a7-1
00:09:36.940 --> 00:09:40.000
you know, in my Edwardian blouses reading,
you know, the German romantics.

58c6381d-29dd-47f2-a8ef-4676ca85b722-0
00:09:40.560 --> 00:09:41.520
So what do I expect?

af258f4f-a863-4c2b-88fa-0b3ca5f2e3a7-0
00:09:41.520 --> 00:09:43.600
Of course, I, I'm a bit, you know,
of a weirdo.

477ac237-1a77-42e8-8298-fa0c2adbcb18-0
00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:46.853
But I guess that's the,
the privilege of being a writer is that

477ac237-1a77-42e8-8298-fa0c2adbcb18-1
00:09:46.853 --> 00:09:50.198
you get to go in and out, You know,
I can go out and look at the world and

477ac237-1a77-42e8-8298-fa0c2adbcb18-2
00:09:50.198 --> 00:09:52.160
noticing is something obviously writers
do.

fc05bbc0-7541-486f-b833-00eba2565fe9-0
00:09:52.160 --> 00:09:56.360
And I'm a good noticer and then go back
in and digest it and write, you know.

488102be-9400-4fa7-b8b3-8701eadb44d4-0
00:09:56.360 --> 00:09:58.740
So I had a great time for, you know,
about 10 weeks,

488102be-9400-4fa7-b8b3-8701eadb44d4-1
00:09:58.740 --> 00:10:01.480
just borrowed in a way study, you know,
with piles of books.

3560f531-0b55-4eae-9804-46b067725e66-0
00:10:01.800 --> 00:10:02.760
But then I had to come out.

f4344e21-fc6b-4fc7-98d4-a2c70b46a7b6-0
00:10:02.760 --> 00:10:06.075
And part of the coming out is coming to
do festivals and promotion stuff,

f4344e21-fc6b-4fc7-98d4-a2c70b46a7b6-1
00:10:06.075 --> 00:10:07.240
which is also really cool.

4f65fd2c-14af-491e-a086-669591c6c2ea-0
00:10:07.240 --> 00:10:08.360
I really less, I forget.

1c6540b4-5d17-435c-a1d7-c0ae41419de6-0
00:10:08.560 --> 00:10:08.840
Yeah.

2128ba9e-e1f5-46c1-9678-c627bf0dc751-0
00:10:10.200 --> 00:10:10.440
Thank you.

e10a3381-6e7a-4471-ac4d-0b4f44063287-0
00:10:10.440 --> 00:10:11.200
It's very nice to meet you.

4610b3dc-11bc-43e0-aec3-c80468acebd0-0
00:10:11.200 --> 00:10:13.360
OK,
Thank you and best of luck on your panel.

7b42106e-8310-4063-b906-5089c9a467ea-0
00:10:13.480 --> 00:10:14.240
Thank you, Thank you.

bfcc0abd-9ff3-4a7f-96bf-04fba9da0aeb-0
00:10:14.240 --> 00:10:14.960
Looking forward to it.

28f69b02-3774-4cb2-afc0-6d1bfd30f901-0
00:10:17.400 --> 00:10:20.961
This has been a special presentation of
the Not Quite Right Podcast in

28f69b02-3774-4cb2-afc0-6d1bfd30f901-1
00:10:20.961 --> 00:10:23.720
collaboration with Words on the Ways
Writers Festival.

159df6db-5b40-457b-bd21-ebb58a10602b-0
00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:27.683
Check the show notes For more information
about Words on the Waves and the books

159df6db-5b40-457b-bd21-ebb58a10602b-1
00:10:27.683 --> 00:10:28.840
mentioned in this episode.

80bcee32-1fed-4469-b7a6-901b57bd350c-0
00:10:29.200 --> 00:10:32.155
If you're new to the podcast,
please join us again for our regular

80bcee32-1fed-4469-b7a6-901b57bd350c-1
00:10:32.155 --> 00:10:35.200
episodes where we talk about media,
culture, and the art of writing.

74fefc2d-640a-4898-a098-e8307698a4c9-0
00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:39.040
Something doesn't seem quite right.