Not Quite Right features discussions that are unfiltered and uncensored,
and may include themes that are inappropriate for younger listeners.
Also, I swear a lot.
Something doesn't seem quite right.
Welcome to Not quite right.
My name's Ed, and I'm Amanda.
Amanda, do you know when our last regular episode
was?
No.
I don't even remember what I was doing yesterday.
When was our last regular episode?
17th of October.
Oh, my God.
Last year.
And that was our hundredth episode.
Celebration.
Yeah.
We just, like, celebrate.
And then just went.
I'm out.
And then exactly.
I'm good.
But we've released a bunch of episodes since then.
Let's be real.
It's not because we have been slacking off.
We've been slacking on, if anything, what does that look like exactly?
No, But you're right.
You've just coined a phrase there.
And we're we're recording this now in April.
Don't know when it's gonna come out, probably afterwards on the waves,
let's be real.
And I think it'll be like 150 episodes.
Yeah, by the time this actually comes out.
That's my feeling.
It's a bit like, you know, when you go into confession,
they say how long has it been since your last confession?
It's a bit like that.
Maybe it's been a while since I've done a confession.
When was your last confession?
Actually, I tell you what, it wasn't that long ago 'cause I was.
I had to do 1 when my daughter did her reconciliation right and they got the
parents in.
What juicy confessions did you?
He's a funnier story because I don't remember.
But I do remember doing confession before I got married because we we were doing a
mass which I regret and I'm so sorry I put you through that.
I'm sorry to all.
I don't even remember Wedding.
Yes.
Did you have enough masses in my childhood that I learnt the skill of
dissociating and it's a nice rest for your brain.
But anyway, shouldn't have done it.
The priest talked us into a full mass.
I'm like right whatever.
Anyway, then he wanted us to do confession before
we got married.
And I'm like, OK, fine.
And I went in to do the confession.
This is me.
I haven't done one since I was in primary school.
And you go in there and you're like, I've been mean to my brother and,
you know, I was rude to my parents.
And that's pretty much my confession.
So I go in there as like a fully adult woman, just kind of like,
I guess I've been like, not my ideal self.
I'm not really sure what to tell you.
And he he was trying to hint at something.
I'm like, what are you, what are you getting AT?
And this poor priest awkwardly had to kind of prompt me to remind you what the
sins were.
He had to, he had to remind me that I had been
living with my soon to be husband for quite some time.
And he's like, so was there anything going on in those
years that you lived together that maybe you need to like talk about now?
And I'm like, Oh, yeah, that put me down for one of those.
And I got absorbed.
I'm imagining this scenario.
But.
But while he's hinting you're like revealing all these other random seeds,
you're like, oh, is this the Ian Thorpe thing?
Or is it, is it the shoplifting thing?
Is it that?
Because I'm really sorry about that.
No, he was like, you know what?
Ian Thorpe.
That's fine.
Yeah.
He's like, haven't we all?
Anyway, I've sinned.
But The thing is, I'm forgiven, so it's fine.
Yeah.
So it doesn't really matter what you do.
It's fine.
You just admit it.
And that's cool.
Yeah.
You got to make sure you do it before you die.
But don't you apologies for opening this episode with Catholic theology,
but don't you not leaving this in?
Don't you just have to say it?
Like, don't you have to apologise to God?
Does the priest need to be there?
I think the priest needs to be there.
That's why they do last rites before you die.
Yeah.
And you get absolved and then you get to go to heaven.
I guess it depends which religion you are.
Because if you're like, Protestant, you can just say it in your head.
OK, I should become a Protestant.
That's that was why it took off.
Yeah, right.
Everyone's just like, that's way more convenient.
It's like how, you know, tap and go take us off because it's
really convenient.
It's like, I can just pray and go just be like,
heaps.
Sorry.
Back through that thing.
I just did really.
Sorry.
Cool.
We're cool.
OK.
Awesome.
Now I can die.
Did you feel better after you confessed your sins to the priest?
I felt humiliated.
Yeah.
I was like, the priest had to remind me it was a sin
to have have sex before marriage.
I'm like, I didn't, I forgot that that was a thing.
Wasn't something I dwelt on or something they really talk about in religion.
Is it?
It's easy to forget.
I wouldn't know.
I hadn't.
I hadn't really engaged with religion in quite some time anyway.
Alright, all that aside, let's get into the episode, shall we?
So now, I'm sorry, but I'm just confessing my sins here.
Now go for it.
No, I'm not.
Now confess some sins and we'll keep the juiciest ones for our Patreon,
which we'll talk about later, but no, go, go for confess, Confess.
Are you gonna confess somewhere?
Is it just me?
Definitely not.
Well then I'm not doing it.
Maybe, maybe.
Depends.
Depends how bad your sins are.
I'll try to confess one on the same level.
OK, so shoplifting, right?
I shoplifted once when I was like 10.
I stole literally a pipe cleaner from a spotlight store.
So a crafty pipe cleaner was like a pink 1 was like fluffy.
And I put it in my pocket and I took it home and the guilt overpowered me.
And years later I still felt guilt.
And I never used this pipe cleaner for anything because I was just like, Oh,
my God, that's the guilt.
And then, like, years later, I took a 10 cent piece,
which was the value of the pipe cleaner, probably double value of the pipe cleaner.
And I, like, left it on the floor in a spotlight store
to, like, pay back.
Yeah.
Now you your turn.
OK.
I'll confess some shoplifting then.
OK.
When I was like 9 or 10, we used to go to the shops.
No, I used to want things at the shops that I
couldn't have.
And then at some point, I was like, hang on a minute.
I could just take this thing and put it in my pocket.
And like, who would suspect a child?
Literally everyone who works there.
And, and so I stole some random stuff and look,
here's what I stole.
I stole some padlocks from Coles because I was like,
they're interesting and they're, you were coveting the padlocks big time.
And I think I stole some toys as well, like just some like action figurines or
something.
And I thought I was pretty smart.
And then my mum busted me and she was like,
you can't do that and explain to me how society works.
Yeah, I had, I had a whole thing that like I just
steal it.
And then later on I would pretend I found it.
And and then she was like, flawless plan.
How do you always keep finding this these things after we just go to the shops?
And then I was like, I may have pushed this a little bit too
far.
So, yeah.
So some padlocks are on your conscience.
Yeah, I have to.
Have you offered that up in prayer?
No, Look, do you think that God's role is like,
do you realise you're, you're stealing value from the
shareholders when you do that?
Do you think that's God is like, that's his job?
Do you think that would Jesus would have been all about that, right?
You know, read the Bible and see what Jesus was
like when he was on earth.
And do you think he's going to be like, oh,
you probably should have paid for that because, I mean,
I think the rules were pretty clear.
So I don't know.
Thou shalt not steal is pretty straightforward.
When do you think about it?
Jesus said that he was there to create a new covenant and and not to follow the
old rules.
It's the big book of multiple choice.
You can choose your own rules.
Yeah.
I think that's how religion works.
Yeah.
That's pretty much how the Bible works.
Of course, it is why there are so many denominations.
Anyway, that's all potentially on the cutting
room floor.
So look, we're finally at the PO episode.
We've been talking about this for the last 6 plus months.
You've been avoiding it.
Well, we've been doing a lot of reading.
We've been doing so this has been at the bottom of my reading list,
but I've been hitting it pretty hard after flesh fiction.
So perverts, your time has come.
Finally, we'll be talking all about PO.
We're talking about Single Effect.
We'll be talking about some of his nonfiction, some of his fiction.
We may even be reading a story or two or should direct or two.
I feel like we should.
They lend themselves to the audio format, I feel.
So that's really going to be what this episode is about.
But before that, we've got a lot of catching up to do
because it's been a long time, a lot of announcements.
So we'll hit you with all of that first and then we'll get into PO.
Sounds good.
So the first major announcement is Patreon,
which we've been talking about for ages.
In fact, we've been working on it in the
background for ages, recording some episodes,
some episodes of our new podcast called The Niche,
exclusive to Patreon supporters.
Silly nonsense, you might say.
Silly nonsense.
All the stuff that is too hot for radio, perhaps,
or maybe too niche for a podcast about writing.
We talk about all sorts of other stuff.
Yeah, bit of a lighter touch, the editing.
And we let a few things slip that perhaps we shouldn't, which of course,
we never do normally.
MMM.
In fact, we have released for a limited time,
if you recall, the first episode of The Niche called The
Jankles dot MP3.
So that's a bit of a taste for you.
But Patreon is finally live.
We will have the link in the show notes, links on our website everywhere.
If you want to sign up, we would love to have you.
There's all sorts of perks and yeah, it's not just the extra content,
which hopefully is enjoyable to those of you who like our silly nonsense,
but also there's discounts, there's early release content,
there's all sorts of stuff.
So if you're interested at all, just go and click the link,
check it out and see if that's something that you'd like to get on board with.
And the big thing here is I guess that it's supporting us.
It's supporting us to continue doing what we do.
So if you enjoy what we do and you would like to support that to continue,
then that's the way to do it.
Basically, that's it.
You hit us with a couple of dollars and we will give you a warm fuzzy feeling in
return.
That promise to you, It's your promise.
All right, sounds good.
So as part of our Patreon launch, we are also giving away a lucky door
prize to 1 lucky person who signs up within the first two weeks.
And we will obviously send an email out to everyone so you are aware of what that
time period is.
But it is the contents of our innuendo jar,
which is brimming with cash at this point.
It's quite overflowing.
Oh, that's a bit of an exaggeration.
I think it should be more over than it is, to be honest,
but certainly hundreds of dollars, hundreds of rude jokes that will be
transferred into cash form for one lucky winner.
And we look forward to sharing the love on that one.
I have enjoyed the innuendo jar, the gentle tinkle of a completely
inappropriate joke.
It's like a Pavlovian response I have now, and I will be sad to say goodbye to the
Innuendo Jar, but very, very happy to share that with one winner.
But if you don't want to join Patreon for whatever reason and you do still want to
support us, there is one thing you can do that's free.
And that is to jump onto your podcast platform of choice and leave us a five
star review, like a positive review.
We love to get it.
It helps get the podcast out there.
It helps us be seen.
You know, tell your friends, tell your enemies,
if you like all that kind of thing.
Well, you know, I just want to say something about that,
'cause I listen to a lot of podcasts and they're always saying that like, just,
you know, hit follow, like subscribe, whatever.
And that helps us get seen.
And, and you're kind of like, OK, what does that actually mean?
Just for a second, I just want to give a shout out of
appreciation to all of those people who like our social media posts,
who re share our social media posts, who take the 20 seconds to comment on our
social media posts and or go on and leave a review of the podcast,
follow the podcast.
All of those things they're free to do, but they have a legitimate impact.
Like one of the impacts is that if you're liking and following and commenting on
social media, one impact is that you're going to see
that more on your own feet.
So that's your choice.
If you want to see us on your feet, great, OK.
And that's one thing that will happen.
But also what it does is it tells the algorithm that that's something that
people like.
And so it shares it then more with your friends and with other people who are
kind of in our peripheral network.
And that's really beneficial to us.
It helps us get in front of more eyeballs and it's totally free to do.
And so I guess I just want to say thank you to the people who are doing that
already.
I don't think you know that that has an impact,
but it really does every time you just hit like literally just hit like on
something that we post, you're doing a big favour and we really
appreciate it.
Yeah, and we do see it.
And we also do see when people recommend the not quite right prize to their
friends as well, because we see it in people's general
feedback.
Hey, I heard about this comp from another
person who does the comp and it's amazing to hear.
So thank you to everyone who has already done that.
Absolutely.
We want to connect with the people all around the world,
and we know they exist who are a little bit not quite right like we are and just
build our little community.
So once again, thank you.
And yeah, for those of you who can't get enough,
then Patreon is the answer.
And if you like what we do, then I guarantee you're going to enjoy
the additional nonsense that we post there.
So that's about it for our announcements for now.
But it's been what, 6-9 months?
How long it's been since we've last recorded a regular episode.
And you've been busy.
I have.
Yeah.
Unlike me, very unlike me to be busy.
I've been travelling.
So I went to Japan with my family, which was wonderful.
And I think I mentioned on a previous episode,
but I met Ben Daggers in real life, which was lovely.
Like I really love to meet my Internet friends in real life.
Sumitra Singham as well, another writer who I've gotten to know
online, who I hung out with at the beach in
Sydney.
It gives me life to meet these other flash fiction writers.
I don't know.
I feel so privileged to be able to do that and to and to meet people who have
become my friends and who I talk to all the time online.
It kind of makes it real.
Like, it's one thing to relationship online
with people and another thing to see them in the flesh and go, oh,
**** that's an actual person exists and has their own life.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, my daughters were very, like, they questioned me on it.
They're like, I thought we weren't supposed to, like,
talk to people online.
Yeah.
And now you're agreeing to meet up with these people in real life.
I'm like, yes, do as I say.
Not as I do, of course.
Like, there's this whole community of writers
all over the world and we can all connect online, which is really, really fun.
Oh.
And Sally, Sally Simon as well, who I hung out with in Sydney.
We spent the day in Sydney together.
I just love it so much.
And I look forward to opportunities to meeting other writers as well.
So if anyone is out Sydney way, let us know.
All right.
And so you've been writing as well.
You've been.
Listen, this is the thing about you.
You're like, I'm not writing any flash fiction this
year.
I'm taking a break.
I've got other things to do.
And then you're like, I'm in Twisted tournament.
This.
First of all, that was last year.
Yeah.
But like, no, that was all of last year.
And now it's in two comes year as well.
A little bit.
Yeah.
You did so.
So you have a habit of binding off way more than you can chew.
And then, and then once, like it's in your mouth, you're like,
whoa, got too much in my mouth.
And then I, I, I do like to talk with my mouth for,
as you know.
Yeah, No, you're right.
But you did OK.
You did OK.
So tell us about Twisted Tournament.
No.
So I've, I've signed up for the year.
Oh, really?
How many comps?
3 or 4?
Wow.
I don't, I don't actually know because I just
really ran with it.
But Twisted tournament has like 3 stories per round as well.
So it's a bit like New York City midnight, I guess in that way.
So different lengths and different amounts of time to get them done.
And it's my first time and I, I had been wanting to enter Twisted
Tournament for a while and just didn't feel like I had capacity.
So I was like, listen, now's the time I'm signing up and it'll
be what it is kind of thing.
And I guess what I've learned from this experience is that I am burnt out and
it's a lot.
It's a lot to try and write so much in like a week basically.
And I have been finding that challenging.
So it's just been the one round of three so far.
So it was three stories, a 500 word story, A250 and A100, all in the space of a week.
And fortunately that week was pretty clear for me, so I gave it a go.
But, you know, I wasn't feeling good about it.
It's been a while.
It's like cobweb situation.
So I did struggle with that.
And to be honest, I don't have a lot of experience writing
like a 100 anyway.
Yeah, it was good.
It was good.
I enjoyed it.
Feedback's interesting.
It's like it's whole, whole different vibe with Twisted
Tournament.
Very positive.
Everyone's just there to have fun, which I love.
And yeah, there's a lot of sort of emphasis on
feedback, which unfortunately I think I found
difficult because I didn't have time to kind of interact with the feedback
properly.
It was like, it was a lot to me.
And I dipped in and I made some comments and then I'm like, I just,
this is overwhelming.
Like I don't have time to read and comment meaningfully on all these stories.
So that's something I found challenging as well, but overall very enjoyable.
What a positivity.
It's tricky because we are both very busy obviously on the comp and on the podcast
and all the things we do.
But I also want to do some more writing like I want to,
I do want to enter more comps and I'm thinking for myself it's something I will
do next year because this year we do have still all the things we want to work on
and I do want to prioritise that this year.
So I think next year for me, but I actually reflecting on,
on maybe the relationship between feeling creative and how much time and mental
bandwidth you have because like you can never have a perfect situation with,
with writing and you never really feel like, oh, or rarely, let's say,
does the weekend of the competition align with how you're feeling that weekend,
how much time you have, how much sleep you've had,
like whether or not your calendar is clear.
And sometimes it's an effort and sometimes it's easier.
And sometimes your best work comes when you're under stress and you actually feel
more energised in a way.
You get more, you feel more like you need that release
or that creative activity to take you out of where you are currently.
So like sometimes it's, it's hard to say whether just because you
are tired and drained, like that is necessarily a bad thing for
riding.
Sometimes it can be good.
And yeah, it's a lot.
I think everyone's in the same boat.
You know, you've got a lot of pressures and our age,
you know, you've got a lot of pressures, whether that be work or children or other
family commitments or just the day to day, which is usually over committed anyway.
So you're dealing with that.
And like you say, it's, it's not just the time to be creative for
me.
There's a huge aspect of it that's like the emotional energy to be creative and
to like have that confidence in myself to put myself out there,
which is also its own special challenge.
So I can put words on a page, but do I feel good about it?
Do I have the energy to like believe in that story and see it through to
completion and edit it properly and submit?
And I'm the kind of person who responds well to like a deadline and to the
pressure of like, I paid for this competition,
so I'm going to enter.
And so that's not usually enough for me to at least submit whatever ***** ** ****
like I've come up with at the time and to give it a go.
But that's very different to feeling good and feeling like I really like this story
or I'm passionate about it or it said something that I really wanted to say.
It's usually for me in recent times more a case of like I just like wheezed over
the line and just submitted what I had, knowing its problems usually and
accepting that and just being like, well, I'd rather just yeah, still have a go,
you know, and not like I'd I hate DNRS, DNRS, **** I hate DNFS DNR.
That's just telling of my mental stuff.
Do not resuscitate.
Oh my God, that's the stories I do submit are the
DNRS and the DNFS are the ones I don't submit.
No, because I usually what you do is you send
me a, a ***** ** ****.
No, you send me a message the day before or
or the morning of the deadline.
Be like, I didn't write anything.
I'm gonna it's a DNF and then you'll send me one right before the deadline.
Be like I wrote something.
That's our function, but like, well done getting it over the line.
And yeah, it's never going to be perfect if you're
under that pump.
So.
I guess you've got to make that decision for yourself.
Is that something you want to do?
It would be better to have a bit more time to to play with.
I mean, for me, I, I find you're much better than me at
writing with distractions.
Like from what I understand, you can do a bit of writing,
do something else, come back to the writing.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
I mean, it doesn't result in like a good outcome.
But yeah, for me, I feel like I have to be immersed for
like a good four or five hours in something and just kind of sit in it and
have that be part of me to get it all out and then I can kind of move on.
I can't like dip in and out.
I struggle with that.
That's some me problem.
I mean, that's just how you like to do it as well.
Like that's fine.
But you know, I guess I, I would like to say to the people who
enter our competition as well, like, we know it's just a weekend and you got
**** on a lot of the time.
And like, I'm not expecting people to just like
come to us with like this piece of perfection that has just been born of,
you know, the Angel singing and the muse coming
down.
Like it's just a piece of writing.
You had a crack.
You might have had a good idea that just flowed or you might have had a **** idea
that you've workshopped into oblivion.
Like whatever it is having a go.
And we say this all the time, but like, actually submitting something is already
a win.
I really do think that I feel that for myself,
that just that relief of like I did it, even though I'm not super proud of what I
submitted, I'm so glad I submitted something and you
just never know.
Like you can't be objective about your own writing.
Often it's the stuff that we hate that resonates with someone else or you know,
we love something so much and everyone's just like you just can't know.
I'll tell you what, we're actually before we started
recording, we were reflecting on, like, what makes a winning piece in flash
fiction.
And I know that whenever we have awarded someone the win for a competition,
it's always been a surprise for them.
Like, no one has gone.
Oh, yeah, I expected that.
And, you know, you, you've won furious fiction.
And it was a surprise for you.
Yeah, as well.
It still is.
I'm like, that was not that.
But that's the thing.
It's hard to be objective.
And sometimes you think you haven't done a good job or like it hasn't hit exactly
where you wanted it to go, but it's hit a place in the judge's mind
or in someone else's mind that maybe you didn't expect or, yeah,
you just never know.
Yeah.
And so I hope people do.
You know, I hate DNFS.
They make, they make me very sad.
You just never know what's going to come out.
Pressure produces diamonds sometimes.
A lot of ****.
There's a lot of ****.
That's OK Give us your ****.
It's fine.
You won't get any judgement.
I mean, you'll get actual literal judgement,
but it's not a competition.
It's not a competition.
We don't judge you.
No.
But yeah, it's a process and you're not going to
win every time.
But like, the more you do it, the better you get.
And just coming back to like real life writing friends,
the more friends you make in the writing space,
and if you're doing flash fiction competitions,
the more friends you make in flash fiction competition space,
the more wins you get.
Because quite literally, like I take every win of my friends as my
own win.
Yeah.
If someone else's name is on a long list or a short list or a win, I'm like, yes,
I won.
And it's been great seeing some of our former winners and short listers and long
listers turning up on other lists.
Well, not even, like they might not even make our long
list.
And they find their home somewhere else.
And that's always very exciting as well.
Yeah, Like now I've got this whole community of
everyone who enters our comp, like when they they win something.
Sorry, sorry.
I just everyone who enters our Comm, whenever they get published somewhere or
do well in another competition or even just post to their own blogs,
it's just like, oh, I achieved something today.
Yeah, absolutely, vicariously, 100%.
I love it so much.
All right, so let's move on.
Before we get into Poe, we have one voicemail from a listener,
and that's from Lilith Falkins, and she's coming at us with a hot take.
So let's listen to that now.
Hi, Edna.
Amanda, I'm Lilith Falkins from Florida and the
USA, and my hot take is that rating books with
one to five stars is functionally useless.
Stars have become inflated.
So an average three out of five is seen as bad instead of, you know,
average like a middle of the road book.
It could be like Rotten Tomatoes, where serious reviews from critics are
there for those who are looking for more intellectual,
artistic engagement and then general populace for pure entertainment value.
So thank you for your message, Lilith, and thank you for being so patient.
I know we've been sitting on this for a while waiting for our next regular
episode to come up, so can't wait to talk about it.
I've got a lot to say.
I bet you do.
Well, I was just going to say I'm going to
defer to you on this one because you are the resident book reviewer.
You've got your following on Goodreads.
You've got your hordes who listen to what you think.
So I'm going to listen to what you think right now.
Well, listen, I haven't posted much on Goodreads since
we started the podcast, coincidentally for various reasons.
One of them being I don't have time to read anything except for competition
entries.
But yeah, I've got thoughts on this because I feel
like Lilith, that the rating system that we have is
pretty much useless and like, unless we're all on the same page.
So the star system on Goodreads, this is like if you hover over the stars,
it will tell you what the stars mean.
One star is I didn't like it.
OK, if you didn't like something that's the
only option that you have like it's one star.
I didn't like it one star.
It's pretty straightforward.
2 stars is it was OK, OK, so for me, a two star book is a book that like all
right, it had some redeeming features, but it didn't didn't way.
I wouldn't recommend it didn't knock you away.
Did I say that?
I think so.
It didn't beat me off.
It didn't.
Two stars.
Yeah, that's right.
Give you every book two stars.
Like you have to beat it off to get three stars is a bare minimum.
And then from there, well, I'll give you 5 anyway.
So three stars is I liked it, which for me,
a book that is good that I liked, that I enjoy is 3 stars.
Yeah, four stars, I really liked it.
And five stars, it was amazing.
OK.
So most books if if like you're a person who reads books that are mostly good.
And I tend to kind of curate the books I tend to read and I waste your time on.
And yeah, I'm not the kind of person who'll just
pick up a random book that I've never heard of.
So like, I've got some assurance that at least
some people like the book that I'm gonna read, generally speaking.
So if I liked it, if I thought it's a strong book,
like 3 stars, great, well done.
If it was really good, like it had something exceptional,
4 stars.
If it was like an absolute favourite, like knocked me away, five stars,
all right.
But the books that get 5 stars are going to be fewer and further between than the
ones get that get 3 stars, because five stars is like the highest
level, the best thing ever.
So five stars is like, it blew you away.
But what if it just blew you six stars?
Oh, wow, you almost blew out microphone.
Just.
Why not at this point?
So, yeah, I agree with Lilith that the star system
has become five stars is just your default.
Yeah.
And I think this kind anything less is almost cruel to the old.
Yeah.
And this has come from, I think, like the way that we review products and
services.
Like you get in an Uber and you don't give them five stars.
Even if it was just a satisfactory Uber, it's a problem.
And people are judged on the metrics.
I know for like companies like Uber or anywhere you leave a review or a star
rating, if it's less than five stars, that means there's a problem.
And that means like an average ratings for services tend to be like 4.9 stars.
If you're like a a customer service person and people rate you and your
average is like 4.5, that means you're ****.
Yeah.
So I think that maybe that approaches skewed things.
Do you think it's like a capitalism thing?
You know, like, it's very much about getting sales and
it's not about meaningfully connecting with people because if you like,
it's OK if people just like your book, especially if they're not really your
demographic.
You know, it depends what you're trying to write
and who you're trying to connect with.
But when I write stuff, I'm mostly trying to amuse myself and my
friends, and I wouldn't expect everyone to just
fawn all over what I write.
Yeah, you know, looked totally.
And but I would also say we're part of the problem here because we've just asked
people for five star reviews.
And no, I don't need 5 star.
Be real.
No, but like, just but 5.
But like, don't review us if you're not gonna give
five stars because everything is so overhyped.
Yeah.
And to the point that the reviews are meaningless.
And I would you kind of, you don't review ****.
I mean, if you've got a habit of reviewing books
and you review every book, OK, that's that's its own separate thing.
But as a consumer, I would only review anything if I really
liked it so much and I was trying to support the people who were doing
whatever it is, or I wanted to punish them for the bad
service.
Like, that's why you'd leave a review, right?
Like people must know that they're going to RIP you off, you know?
I want to share that so they don't get to RIP anyone else off.
That's one motivation.
And the other is, oh, my God, I love them.
They need my support.
I want other people to know they're great so that they find them and that's it.
I don't review ****.
If it's like, yeah, that was fine.
Why would I?
So I review on Goodreads.
I also do movies on Letterboxed as well.
And both of those I started for the same reason.
Not because I want to like, like influence, influence anyone.
Exactly.
No, it's because I've got a really bad memory
and about three months after I've read a book,
I've forgotten what that's a little diary.
And it's a diary and that's all it's, that's why I started it.
It's so that I can also, like, enjoy connecting with people.
There must be people on there who taste that you share.
And yeah, that's part of it.
But that kind of grew out of the initial.
And I'm saying that in response to your point about like, you don't,
you wouldn't review something that you didn't love, but I would.
I would review something that I didn't love and say, well,
this is what I felt about it.
The difference I feel between who are of you on Goodreads and like Letterboxed.
I read mostly literary fiction and mostly wanky **** Yeah.
But also a lot of stuff that's written by people who are no longer alive or maybe
don't need my review to to add to their prestige, right.
And same goes for movies.
Like if you review a movie positively or negative,
it's not going to like the director is not going to be like, Oh my God,
I can't believe you did this.
They might.
But I did once write a review for a book that was by a independent author.
Like it was published, but it was a independent author.
And they did message me about my review to clarify a few things.
And I gave it three stars, which means do you like means I liked it?
Isn't that you really liked?
No, three stars is.
I liked it.
So three stars, according to my rating system, I liked it.
And I called out things I didn't didn't like about it.
But then they messaged me, and I felt bad about that because three
stars looks bad to an independent small author.
That wasn't my intention.
And again, my intention was just to catalogue the
things that I had read so that I could go back later and remember what I thought
about them.
So yeah, I think there's that tension.
People who are using those platforms to promote their books, like good reads,
like to promote their books, they expect five stars or as close as
possible to five stars.
Otherwise perceived that people are not going to want to buy it.
Because the expectation based on the way things work in the modern world is that
five stars is the default.
But also that makes a pretty useless rating system because if you're on there
looking for good books to read or good movies to watch,
you're not going to find out.
You're just going to get a lot of five star reviews for mediocre work
essentially.
But I guess reviews then are meaningless.
But if you follow a particular reviewer whose taste you share and they're they're
giving meaningful reviews about whether I liked it or really liked it or whatever
it might be.
And they and they're also elaborating on the reasons,
then it starts to become more meaningful.
Like you were saying, I'm not going to waste my time reading a
book that no one has even recommended to me.
It's just nothing and I'm taking a risk.
But if you know that the people whose opinion you trust,
whether that be online reviewers or whether that be people at your book club
or people in your personal network, mum, sister, friends, whatever it might be,
then that is more meaningful than just this generic.
Whether it's five stars, 4 stars, like I'm not sure that means anything.
Although having said that, I find Rotten Tomato reviews like pretty,
pretty accurate.
And you know, if something's got a pretty high review
on Rotten Tomatoes, I'm like, this is going to be entertaining.
Yeah, I look and I think going back to what you
just said before, that's the trick that I learnt from
Goodreads and also Letterboxed as well.
I do the same thing.
There is, if I watch a movie and I love it,
then I go and look at the other reviews on that movie or, or that book.
And if I see a review that I like that kind of expresses similar thoughts that I
had, then I might follow that person and say,
well, what else have they read that I might
also like?
And then you follow a whole bunch of people and you get to know their
preferences.
And then you use that to help guide what you want to read or watch next.
But is it a bean soup thing too?
Like if you don't like something, and this is like,
I say this as a friend of multiple authors,
whether they be traditionally published or self published,
some get more wrapped up than others in the reviews and take them personally or
not.
But for the ones who do, it's like how helpful is it to leave a
****** review on something for which you were not the target demographic?
I'm not sure how helpful that is.
Like in a situation like yours where you're reviewing everything and you've
got followers who are following what you like because that's what they like.
And, and then that's a meaningful review, but you're almost just not giving that
person a chance then.
And I think that's what it feels like.
It's like if you give someone A2 star review,
then they don't have a chance with anyone in your orbit who who cares what you
think?
Because that's pretty bad.
And it's like, well, why?
Like who does that serve?
They It's not.
We talk about wasting time, but when is it ever really wasting time
to consume art?
Even if you don't like it, you're still learning what you like and
don't like.
You're still engaging with other human beings and thoughts and feelings in a way
that I don't know is an experience.
Whether it's like, oh wow, this is an enjoyable,
thought provoking experience or whether it's just like, yeah, that was fine.
Like that's just life, right?
And if everything is always amazing all the time,
then you have no frame of reference either.
So it's like, probably good to consume a little bit of
**** art every now and then as well.
Yeah.
That.
That's true.
Or, or art that you think is ****.
You know, Yeah.
I think it's always worth kind of broadening your horizons and trying new
things.
Yeah.
Like, should we just get rid of it?
Just get rid of review systems and just engage with stuff because that's what
life is.
I don't know much to ask.
It is a bit because we've got limited time as well, right?
Like you can't watch and read everything.
You've got to choose and you've got to have a way of choosing.
It's pretty reliable.
But yeah, I think my, you know, takeaway summary of this is it's valuable
depending on the size of one person's voice against other voices.
So like the more reviews there are, generally the more accurate it is.
But I think with smaller works like small books, independent movies,
people should err on the side of being positive about them because they need
promotion.
Yeah #1 sorry.
You're like some independent little self published author.
You don't need some other **** **** by the way.
Like you're * **** **** who's self publishing and you've got some other ****
**** who's coming in like I'm actually an intellectual and this did not meet my
standards.
Like, well, ******* write your own book, you know what I mean?
Just just scroll on.
Just scroll on.
If you're not going to be supportive of independent people who are busting their
***** just to create art in an environment where that is almost
impossible to do, I don't know.
I'm all for the five star in that context.
Like just the more five star something has,
the more groundswell of support it has is what that's.
And I think that's different, right?
That's about finding an audience and that's about visible.
Yeah.
Whereas if it's like the latest blockbuster movie or like fully hyped
book, who cares?
Like give it one star, tell people what it's actually like.
Yeah, it's different because it doesn't matter
because at that point it's reached a broad audience and it's gonna have
everything from zero to five.
And then once there's never the case that everyone's gonna love something.
Absolutely.
And it's not harming anyone.
And I think, you know, if you have the opportunity,
like someone's given you an ARC copy of a book,
like an advanced reader copy of a book to read,
pretty much either just give it 5 or maybe 4 with some caveats,
or just don't review it.
Like I just don't know that your opinion matters enough to harm someone else's
chance at finding their readers.
So I guess we've come full circle here because yes,
we're saying these ratings are meaningless in a way,
which is kind of like, well, that's a shame,
but there's two things going on here.
There's one where it's meaningful ratings of popular things and you can follow and
only spend time on stuff that is valuable to you, and that's great.
And then there's this other world where there's independents who are just looking
for support to find their audience.
And you might not be their audience.
Yeah, but why would you get in the way of them
finding the people who do like what they're putting out there?
Like, why would you harm their chances of
finding their niche?
I don't know.
It feels cruel.
Yeah, I agree.
And there's no easy answer, unfortunately, because everyone's opinion is different.
I'm often frustrated by the reviews I see on Letterbox and on Goodreads for things
that I enjoy.
And people are just like this is boring, this is pretentious.
And this like some of our Get Wrecked segments a bit a little bit.
But like, OK, so we both recently watched Wuthering
Heights, for example, and I thought that was great.
And it wasn't the book.
It was something different.
And I thought what it did was great.
And then you go on Letterboxed and it's absolutely panned by everyone and
everyone is trying their best to come up with like their own little snarky
comments that kind of get some traction and a bunch of likes.
So that's like a problem with the with the platform.
But if you go on there and you're like, should I watch this movie,
you're probably not going to get a good idea of whether it's worth watching
because they're all just piling onto this kind of groupthink.
And like, that's a problem with reviews.
Like, you can't fix it.
Yeah.
I mean, I, I really enjoyed the Watering Heights
even though it was trash.
Like hello, trash is great.
******* love trash.
That is what Wuthering trash.
No, but I say that with love.
I love trash.
I love it so much.
You know, you.
This is the one who loves neighbours.
And I don't just love it because it's trash.
I actually see value in it.
It's feeding my soul.
Wuthering Heights, when it was first written was trash said
with love.
Like, it's just drama.
It's full on, and it's all about just being shocking.
Yeah, great.
And like, where's the problem?
I don't know.
You don't have to be intellectual.
You know, some classic novels are kind of more
thought provoking and intellectual.
This one is just a bunch of fun and entertainment.
And so to bring it up to a modern standard where it's still just fun and
entertaining, Like, ******* yeah.
Look, I like when things are challenged, and I like when we get something new and
something different and something surprising.
And I thought that movie was all of those things.
And you can, like, nitpick and say it wasn't this and this
and this.
I don't think it was trying to be that.
It wasn't trying to be the book.
It wasn't trying to portray things exactly how they're written.
It was trying to do something else, and it did something else.
And, like, what it did was good.
And how many stars, though?
I'll have to check what I gave it.
It was the three 3 1/2 or 4 stars, I can't remember because.
Yeah.
Well, for funsies, I mean, we do have our previous episode,
More Mores, where we talked about Wuthering Heights.
That was my recommendation to you, the novel.
We also recorded a Patreon episode all about my experience of Wuthering Heights.
I was actually recommending it to you.
Yes.
Because I knew you'd love it.
Yeah.
And that episode is tantalisingly titled Cadbury Cream Egg.
We're just coming out of Easter now.
Yeah, just coming out of Easter.
All right, It's Poe time, *******.
You ready for some Poe?
I wasn't, but now I am.
I've been frightened into a state of play.
All I can do is think of my single effect right there.
What if I choked to death?
I would die happy.
I nearly choked on a lolly.
It was a lolly.
That was the shape of lips.
OK.
If I choked to death on that when you were like, it's Poe *******.
Want to go?
I would.
It's very ironic.
I love it.
OK.
Each episode, Amanda and I take turns recommending each
other books or movies that we may not have chosen for ourselves.
It's a segment we call Get Wrecked.
And look, I say each episode at this point in
massive quotes, each regular episode.
And it's been a while, we've been really backed up.
We've been backed up when we say so much flesh, when we say regular.
Like at this point there's some Metamucil meaning to be involved.
But for the purposes of this episode, you've recommended Poe.
So you say books, movies.
This is just short stories, poems, essays, the complete works thereof.
So it's a little bit different to our normal recommendations of being a
discrete work.
This is kind of an author, Edgar Allan Poe and his entire catalogue
of works, which is a lot, which is a lot.
So we've actually got an article up on the website called Reading Rex for
Perverts, and you can find that via the menu on the
website.
And that's the reading list demand that you put together with some help from DID.
Yes, some help from Chris Semptner from the
Poe Museum.
And I reached out to him and asked, well, like, there's a lot of Poe,
so where do we start?
And he gave us some really great recommendations.
And even though it's been since October last year, I still haven't read them all.
There's just so much to enjoy.
We've both probably read most of them, or at least I think between us.
But Oh my God, like it opened my eyes.
I've been banging on about Poe for years now,
having only just scraped the surface of what his talents were.
And now my eyes are open.
I love him even more.
So I'm really, really excited to get into some of his
other stories that maybe are lesser known, probably still very well known among
those who appreciate him.
So maybe let's start with a bit of background.
We'll talk about Single effect and then we will get into the stories that we've
read.
Sounds good.
So Amanda, tell us, who was Edgar Allan Poe?
OK, well, I mean, he was a poet.
He was a an author of short stories mainly,
and also an essayist and literary critic as well.
And very interesting person.
He was born in 1809 and he only lived to 1849, so just the tender age of 40.
And he was of course American.
He's most well known for his Gothic horror and his exploration of the macabre,
but also having delved a little bit into his other writings to me, sarcastic,
hilarious, amazing critic as well.
And so we probably know him best for his poem The Raven and for other works like
The Telltale Heart.
Speaking for myself, and I know speaking for you as well, Ed,
mainly through The Simpsons and our just in general our pop culture education that
came from The Simpsons.
I cannot read The Raven without hearing, you know, Bart and Homer in that.
And I love that about it.
I think Poe would have appreciated it.
Yeah.
Well, I think early 19th century, right, The British had Jane Austen,
the Bronte sisters, Charles Dickens, you know,
all of those great authors from that that.
And maybe the Americans were a little bit lacking.
And Poe was like one of those great figures from that side of the Atlantic,
basically.
Well, I think it's really interesting as well
to think of Charles Dickens and Poe living at the same time, you know,
and they were contemporaries, you know, they talked about each other.
And I think that's kind of fascinating because in my mind, they're very separate.
You know, we look back at classics, and to us they're sort of
compartmentalised into their little worlds of what they give us.
But actually these people were writing at the same time.
They were influenced by similar political influences and so on.
And Poe was certainly very much influenced by what was going on in the
world around him.
So a lot of what he wrote about was political satire kind of thing,
or commentary on what was going on in the world as he was writing.
He's fascinating person.
I feel like we would have been great friends had we met.
When I think of Poe as well, I just think of that meme and it's like,
RIP Poe.
You would have loved flash fiction.
That is how I feel.
He wrote short stories, of course, but he was very much fixated on this idea
of brevity and of, you know, we'll talk about the single effect,
but of sort of encapsulating in a single sitting a feeling in a story.
And you know, he tended towards the dark feelings,
not always, but that's sort of what he leaned towards.
That's that was his thing.
But overall, just really valuing this idea of how art
can kind of affect you in a moment.
And I think you really would have loved flash fiction, honestly.
Get into it.
So before we get into pose short stories, let's discuss a couple of his nonfiction
pieces.
Yeah.
And what he got first.
Well, I guess what I wanted to cover was this
whole idea of the single effect.
We talk about a lot in relation to the competition.
I know there'd be people coming in who haven't heard us talk about it,
who were like, what the hell are you talking about?
This idea of the single effect, and it's something I guess I came across
separately to Poe.
I know Poe through the Raven and the Tell Tale Heart.
I didn't know much more about him, to be honest,
but he has this whole theory about basically very short fiction that I think
is very, very relevant to flash fiction writing
and competitions in particular.
I think it's really illuminating and helpful to think about.
Like, it's not like this overarching rule that
you can't ever violate, but it is a really helpful way to think
about things when you're writing a piece of flash fiction,
especially when you know you're in a competition setting.
You've got ideas bouncing around.
It's like, which idea do I choose?
Which path do I go down?
And basically Poe's advice was think about the effect you want to create on
the reader, the emotional effect, and make everything point to that.
And my vibe based on these couple of recommended pieces of reading from Chris
from the Poe Museum, is that Poe was a very much a plotter.
He liked to think things through in advance.
And as a result, he sort of was aiming towards very
specific effects.
I think you can do the same thing in an edit as well.
I think there's a few things to learn.
And when I'm reading them as a judge of a flash fiction competition,
it's resonating with me.
I'm like, yes, this makes perfect sense.
This is a really good strategy.
So I guess that's why I want to share it.
I, I really feel like it's effective.
He was also, you know, reading these little pieces,
these little non fiction pieces.
He seemed like a, a short fiction writer in a world of
novelists.
Like, that was his context, but not that he was against that.
But really his focus was on being a piece that you could sit down that would kind
of consume you in one sitting and that you had the opportunity to put forward,
like this single effect and this emotion that you're trying to make the reader
feel.
And if you pick it up and you have to put it down and go do something else and pick
it back up and I don't want a part of it kind of thing.
Yeah.
Well, I think he was mainly talking about
poetry in that aspect.
But nevertheless, I think he sort of had that feeling in
general that, you know, it should be enjoyed in one sitting and
you should get that effect in one sitting.
And that's really kind of, I feel really relevant in the modern day
when we are just on our phones and scrolling.
And I don't know about you, but I find it really hard to just sit
with a piece of anything, to be honest, and read right through it without
checking my phone or responding to my child who's asking a question or whatever
it might be.
Just all of a sudden I need to go to the toilet or I need to go and get something
to eat.
Like I'm just constantly distracted.
And I think a lot of us feel that way.
And so Poe was writing short stories 2 to 3000 words plus kind of thing up to 8000
kind of more.
And I feel like it's that same thing, but we'll condense it down again for a
modern audience who just don't have the headspace to to focus even for 8000 words.
You know, there's something really powerful in
having just that really short, sharp impact on someone.
And that's not to say a novel is worthless or, you know,
a like a TV series that you can't watch all in one go that it's worthless.
No, they serve a different purpose.
But I think it's nice to reflect on what a very short piece of figure action or
poetry can do.
And I think that's what he did.
I think that a novel can be complex and the complexity is a strength of a novel.
Like you can really get in the weeds.
You can follow multiple plot lines.
But a short piece has simplicity.
And I think that's its strength as well.
Like you can lean into that simplicity, focus on one thing.
And I think he's right about that.
They're, they're different mediums really.
Like they're, they're trying to achieve different
things.
And when you talk about short fiction or short film, whatever,
you're really focusing on one single thing and one effect and good advice,
which is why we keep bringing it up again and again.
Yeah, I guess I'd like to sort of elaborate
what it means exactly for those who are less familiar with that.
So I've got this article in front of me, which is it's actually the review of
Nathaniel Hawthorne's work.
It's called Tale Riding Nathaniel Hawthorne by Edgar Allan or Edgar A Poe,
and it's about the body of work by Nathaniel Hawthorne,
which is the author of The Scarlet Letter, amongst other things.
So in this piece he's talking about, I mean, amongst other things,
because he does have some other things to say about Nathaniel Hawthorne,
about the idea of originality, which is I think what this article is
mostly about is this idea of originality.
But he goes on to say that basically you should be by design,
creating a single effect in your work.
And when we say single effect, we mean an emotional impact on the reader.
And that can be quite specific.
There's no judgement as to what that effect might be,
that there just has to be 1 basically, and that it's by design that that is what
you are trying to achieve.
You're not kind of dilly dallying and just saying things for the sake of saying
things.
You are trying to create an effect on someone.
And whether you do that, as Poe might have in a structured and
pottery kind of way and planning that all out fine,
or whether you write your story and come back later, analyse it and edit it to fit.
I think that's something I think about when I'm writing my own stories.
What don't I need?
You know, you write the story and then you have to
refine.
And I think that's the beauty of the 500 word format.
You've always got too much.
What doesn't need to be there?
What is not serving this particular story, even if I find it satisfying to myself,
like it's fun or interesting or evocative.
OK, but is it evoking the thing I need it to
evoke or something else?
And that's always worth consideration when you're editing.
So apart from that, I mean, he's sort of this article only lightly
touches on this idea of the single effect.
It goes into much more detail about originality,
which I think is also really interesting when it comes to flash fiction.
I think I don't know about you, Ed, but like,
I do get a little bit fixated on this idea of I need to be original or write
something different.
And we know those of us who've been in the game long enough that there is no
such thing as an original thought.
It's all been done, and that's fine, but trying to find some angle or some
piece of something that feels fresh.
And I guess I just wanted to bring it up because he does have some interesting
insights in that sense.
So he was kind of saying that people were criticising Nathaniel Hawthorn and saying
he's just weird, basically.
And Poe's comment on that was, yeah, like being weird is not the same as being
original.
You know, Like, that gets old pretty fast kind of thing.
What he saw as being original is basically being yourself,
being very much yourself.
And that's how he described it, like your imagination.
But you're consistent with that.
You are always following your imagination down that path is what he was basically
saying Nathaniel Hawthorne did and what he found to be his greatest value.
And I think that's like a pretty good piece of advice too, you know, like,
it's not about trying to invent something out of nothing that's never existed
before.
I mean, that might be one person's type of
originality.
So the goal then, in pose words, is not to just create something out of
nothing, but for the reader to say, here is a charmingly obvious fancy,
or sometimes even here is a thought which I am not sure has ever occurred to myself,
but which, of course, has occurred to all the rest of the world.
We usually designate it as the natural.
So basically what he's saying is you want to create a sense of originality,
which is everybody goes.
I wish I thought of that.
And isn't that the satisfying feeling that you get reading something?
It's not.
He's something I never considered and has never, like, entered my brain.
But that feeling of completeness of I nearly thought that but never did.
And that fills in a piece of my human.
It's almost obvious.
Yeah.
And I think that's a really nice way of thinking of it.
I mean, it's completely intimidating because how
do we achieve that?
I don't know.
But I do like this idea of just leaning into what your intuition is telling you
to do and, and kind of being your own unique self
rather than like maybe original self.
I feel like that's something that we do talk about, you know,
in different contexts as well, on, for example,
Daredevil episodes that we do is following the path that you have,
like the story that you've written and taking that to places where I guess you
want to go, like developing to new and interesting
places.
Just allowing yourself that permission to go a little bit crazy in the way that you
can.
Yeah.
Like your freak flag.
Yeah.
But exactly.
And there's something to be said for that because I think all of us as writers at
some time or another have kind of thought, well, where should this story go?
Like, where would it logically go based on all
the things I've read in the past and media I've experienced?
But really just taking it somewhere unique to you has more of an impact often
on the reader.
Because they weren't going to go there.
Yeah, only you could do that.
Only you could bring that unique combination of thoughts and feelings and
expressions to bear.
If you can also make that, I guess universal in that way is easily
understandable by people to to the point where they can go.
Yes, I have, as you say, almost thought of that,
or perhaps thought of that before, but you've thrown a new spin on it.
Yeah.
And I think he makes a distinction here too.
And I have to say Poe is ******* hilarious.
Like he talks in old timing language, which which can be quite dense at times,
but he is so sarcastic and such a ***** and it is so hilarious.
So if you read these and if you've got that,
if you're a bit of a nerd and you don't mind unpacking the language,
you will be rewarded because he is constantly roasting people.
But what he was roasting here about the critics is kind of basically saying
people think originality or critics and literary people think originality is one
thing, which is like testing the bounds of
what's never been done before and what's acceptable and what's popular and
whatever.
And that that works for people who are so jaded and who've seen everything before
and who just go, oh, thank God, something different.
And and that's what they see as originality.
But what he's saying is that popular opinion is very different.
And what they see as originality is more as we've described that I almost thought
that and didn't like this is you've expressed something that I've have failed
to express so far myself, but which resonates with me.
And I think they are two very different things.
And in the context of like writing competitions, for example,
we look at sometimes the peer judged writing competitions versus others.
And my experience personally writing peer judged competitions is that I write in a
slightly different style to try and appeal more broadly to not offend,
which is my biggest challenge personally, But you know,
to kind of capture something more broad than I might otherwise if I was writing
just for myself or to a specific audience.
So I think that's an interesting insight as well about how popular culture
receives things.
But basically saying you're all a bunch of ******* like, you know,
it's not about that.
There's more to it.
But you know, we've veered off topic a bit.
We've we've been talking about originality.
It's all very fascinating.
But I do want to get into a little bit more detail about this single effect idea.
So there was this other article recommended by Chris from the Poe Museum
called The Philosophy of Composition.
And you read this as well?
Yeah.
So this was the one that he wrote about the Raven or really his thought process
in The Raven.
And look, the I did read the Raven again as part of
this.
It wasn't on the list because I think everyone's read it,
but I also watched it on The Simpsons.
Exactly.
But I will say it's it's famous for a reason.
It's a great poem.
And it's probably, if you're not familiar with it or if you
haven't read it for a, I'll just read it again.
I think it's a, it's a great piece.
So the philosophy of composition was, I believe,
an article that was published by PO kind of explaining his thought process around
writing the Raven and how he approached it.
And he starts with this idea of beginning with the ending in mind or the demon more
as he, as he calls it.
So writing backwards, but not writing backwards necessarily
from the end, although that is what he described he did
in the Raven.
He basically wrote the last line 1st and then tried to escalate from that
escalated position, but also talking about what is the end
effect that I wanted to achieve.
And that's where we get into this whole single effect idea.
And he's like overthinking it to the extreme, which again,
relatable love him to death.
Like he's talking about the word Nevermore,
which is repeated through the Raven, and how he was thinking about the
syllables in that and the long O, and how he could combine both the meaning
of the word with the sound of the word to create this kind of melancholy effect.
And he and he did talk about the, you know, why he chose that word.
And it wasn't interesting to read.
The point of the story is not around that word and what that word is.
It was more about the sound and the history of that word,
which is interesting.
But that's inspiration, right?
Yeah.
That's where you begin.
And then you you go back from there.
And so he was talking about how he went from this word Nevermore and the idea of
this character who was trying to get that answer,
like this sort of psychological effect of like,
I'm going to ask a question that makes you say nevermore, that makes me feel bad.
And if you've ever been like, if you've ever had a breakup or you're
feeling a bit depressed and all you want to do is just press that bruise and make
it feel worse.
Like that is what this story is about.
Like, I'm going to ask this Raven the thing
that when it answers, inevitably the word Nevermore is going to
make me feel as **** as possible.
And so that's kind of where he went with it, I think very cleverly.
But yes, started with basically what you're
telling me, Raven, is that I'm never going to see my love
again because she's dead.
And Ravens like, Yep, like that's where he started and he had
to work back from there.
But as it relates to the single effect, he said, and this was like, again,
overthink much.
But he began with considering the idea of the effect and asking himself.
And maybe this is a little piece of advice for writers who are writing a
piece of flash fiction to ask yourself, of the innumerable effects or impressions
of which the heart, the intellect or more generally,
the soul is susceptible, What one shall I on the present occasion
select?
So of all the feelings, of all the things, what do I feel like to me?
What am I gonna go with?
I think that's a nice place to start.
I think that's interesting because whenever we talk about flash fiction,
we talk about how do we approach set of prompts?
What kind of ideas does that give you?
Like, what premises does that inspire?
But maybe that's a different way of thinking about it.
Like, what is the feeling?
What do I feel right now?
Yeah.
How does that inspire me in its own different way to write within those
prompts?
And that's something about that.
Yeah.
Like as a reader and as a judge, I can tell when someone's writing from a
place of like their thing that they're feeling in that moment,
and when someone's really angry or when someone's really frustrated,
or when someone's like sad or whatever it is and it's flowing through and the story
itself isn't true.
Story's just whatever the prompts spat out for them in their brain,
but they wanted to express that and they successfully did that.
I think that's huge.
I think that does resonate, for me anyway, when someone does that.
You know, we talked about him being a plotter.
He describes it as in the creation of the Raven,
as that it proceeded step by step to its completion with the precision and rigid
consequence of a mathematical problem.
Like this guy, this ***** who's writing this piece of
essentially flash fiction.
It's a poem, but wow, he sees it as a maths problem.
And he's like, I want the sound, I want the O to be a long O,
and that makes me feel sad.
And then I want the word to be nevermore because that makes me feel sad.
And then what kind of animal is sad?
He's like, oh, it's not realistic for a person to just
keep going nevermore.
Like that's not going to fly with the radar.
So let's give it to an animal who's capable of speech and let's make that
animal a black Raven because that feels sad.
And all of this stuff and the weather, what weather is it?
You know, it's howling wind.
And.
And that also makes sense for now.
That why the Ravens tapping on the window to get in or the door to get in and even
talking about the bust above the door and how the Raven settles on that and and the
contrast between the black and the white of the marble and all of that.
Completely overthinking it.
But it works.
It all works.
Yeah.
I feel like that, especially that mathematical approach to
writing as a problem to be solved.
That feels like very aligned to poetry, and I have some experience in that and
writing my little poem Who Shat Their pants?
Because I did have someone say similar thoughts,
like it is a problem to be solved.
You've got like this metre that needs to be met.
You're trying to kind of move it from one moment to the next within these
constraints.
And it's a bit like a puzzle more so than a piece of prose where you just kind of
ride it out.
You got a bit more flexibility.
Yeah.
No, that's true.
Sympathise with that.
You're just totally on board with the Raven.
Exactly.
I mean, that's who shed their pants is another
great modern word.
I happen to agree, to be honest.
Another little tidbit, I guess, from this particular article from Poe,
and something worth thinking about When we're framing our pieces of flash fiction,
you know, we often talk about having a single scene
and a single setting.
Like, unless there's a good reason to veer off
otherwise, containing it allows us to really focus
in on the crucial aspects.
And Poe had his own view on that.
And I think it kind of it feeds into what we typically say.
And he said, it's always appeared to me that a close
circumscription of space is absolutely necessary to the effect of insulated
incident.
It has the force of a frame of a picture.
And I love that idea that you're framing your little scene and to think about that
frame.
We're not just setting it anywhere.
And I think this is the kind of thing that when you're levelling up with your
writing and when you're, when you've got the time, by the way,
as well, to think a little bit more deeply about
what you're writing, you might think about, well,
where am I setting it?
Am I just setting it here because that's where my brain went in the first instance
of picturing what was going on?
Or am I going to think a bit more deeply about what frames my moment in the most
vivid way?
And so, you know, he talks about choosing the chamber for
the Raven and that that is a place of, you know, quiet reflection.
But also, you know, it's being violated by this sort of the
Raven coming in.
And this might be a place where he's thinking about his lost love and all of
this stuff.
Like he thought about that.
He chose that space.
It could have been any room, but he chose that particular space.
Where might you encounter a Raven out in the wild somewhere?
And you know, I think that's a really valid point.
And I think when you do have the time to think that through,
thinking about the setting, not just as like,
as if it's inconsequential and unimportant,
but how can it add value to what you're trying to show?
How can it either frame it like a picture or contribute to that feeling that you're
trying to evince in the reader?
Yeah.
And I think setting is a huge part of post story.
Reading through some of his works, I mean, you mentioned the framing.
I I think also there's a lot of these stories do have like a claustrophobic
feel about like they're very much a lot.
Some of them are said in dungeons and kind of in like Cellars and things,
catacombs.
Yeah, exactly.
But but they're very much embedded in in that setting.
It's also true to say that the setting is almost a character as well in a lot of
these stories, like when we do talk about the catacombs,
like you'd get the sense of the dampness and the dankness.
And in, for example, Descent into the Maelstrom,
it's more of a an outside story where the weather and the sea plays a big role.
So all of those stories, the setting is very well considered and
forms a part of not only the story, but also the single effect, the vibe.
The vibe, absolutely.
But I think all of this is fascinating.
When we talk about single effect, this is what we're saying we're saying,
What emotion are you trying to evoke?
And where this comes most starkly into play is in stories where I feel like
there's an unpleasant contradiction in tone,
either maybe between the title and then the story that follows,
or within the story.
We sometimes receive stories where we've got this kind of comical thing going on,
but then it's also dark and disturbing at the same time.
And as a reader, it can be confusing.
Like, what are we trying to take from this?
Now?
There is such a thing as black comedy.
And it is OK to have dark comedy, but it has to be that dark comedy.
You can't sort of go from Benny Hill and then to, you know,
talking about grief kind of thing.
You have to find a way to be consistent and cohesive in your themes and in your
mood of your piece, especially in such a short piece.
And so I think that's worth considering.
Sometimes, like especially if you're more of a
pantser and you're kind of just going with the flow.
Sometimes you can introduce elements to your story that are actually detracting
from your story.
And you need to be able to identify them and remove them and maybe replace them
with something else that is feeding into and building that one effect that you're
trying to create, which might be either the comedic effect
or the darker effect in this example.
And I think that's really important to think that through because we just don't
have time or headspace to, in a single piece of 500 word flash
fiction, you know, traverse these emotions.
It's it's meant to just hit us in the gut one time.
I think like, that's my view.
I'm not saying it can't be done, but typically in my experience,
the stories that try to do both fail at both.
But we also talk about, I think I expand the term,
maybe unfairly of this single effect idea.
We sometimes apply it to theme as well, not just emotional impact,
but kind of like almost, OK, if you're writing a story set, you know,
on the sea, well, now everything has to kind of have sea
vibes.
And you might choose certain words because they have a shushing sound or
something like the sound of a wave.
Or you might focus a detail and compare it to a fish scale.
And we're and everything is sort of building towards this view of the sea.
And that's not an emotional effect, but it's kind of a thematic effect.
And I think for me, this concept that Poe had a single effect
in terms of that emotional experience also applies to like a thematic
experience.
And in a piece that's only 500 words, to me,
it's playful as well and a bit of a game.
Like, what word can I choose that's more sea
like, Yeah, than the word I did choose.
And that that all feeds into this satisfaction of something feeling like a
complete whole.
Yeah, I don't think those are different things.
I think that is exactly what PO was talking about.
And I think that's what he does in his own writing,
as I mentioned in Descent into the Maelstrom,
which is about like storms at sea basically, that's the maelstrom.
We don't just get that happening in the story.
We get all of the language being stormy.
It's like stormy language waves.
Everything happens in waves and everything crashes against everything
else.
So it's comes out in the language.
And the way that he describes the story in The Cask of Amontillado,
we're going into the catacombs and you you get things told in this kind of dark,
claustrophobic language.
It feels wet.
It's like it's dripping.
It's dripping.
And part of that is a description, and part of that is choosing those words
that emphasise that single effect and whether it's thematic,
whether it's emotional, like those are words you can use,
but in short pieces, you need everything to be pointing
towards one thing.
And I mean, I think there is probably a point where
you can say like, too much as well, for sure.
And, you know, if you're like, oh, I've used a word here that doesn't link
into the theme.
Like, that's not necessarily a problem.
You, you don't have to go too far.
But really, you want to be emphasising and directing
the reader overall into that single effect.
Yeah.
And I think it does come down to every single choice in your story.
Like, what is your character's name?
Where do they live?
What do they look like?
Whatever it is you're choosing to show in your story.
And you don't always show all of those things.
How are those things contributing not just to our view of who this character is,
for example, but who this character is in the context
of this very specific story?
What thing about the matters in the context of this story?
I think for me, a helpful way of thinking about it always
is if you were telling the story to party or if you were telling the story to your
best friend, what's the detail you'd mention and
what's the detail you'd leave out in in that situation?
And so I think it comes down to that, like what are the details you're choosing
to show?
How do they contribute to this theme?
How do they all fit as part of 1 cohesive picture?
I don't think we're looking in that context for a complex individual.
We want a hint of complexity, but not to have to delve into that
complexity.
We want to know it's there, but we only want to see that aspect of it
that plays into the narrative.
Yeah.
So I think that's all we have to say about single effect.
We can put that one to bed forever and never, ever bring.
Oh, yeah, totally.
But let's talk about some of these stories that we read, some fun stories.
I had so much fun reading this stuff.
He's so good.
Yeah.
All these stories have such a a fun voice.
And it's a writing style we don't see very often.
Yeah.
I mean, I guess it's just of its time.
Yeah.
Probably read a little bit more smoothly at the time than it does now,
but I don't know.
Just the sarcastic ********** of it all, really.
Just spoke to me.
Yeah.
Yeah, he was just always roasting people.
Yeah, including himself.
I think that's great.
So I suppose that's a good segue to the first little short story in this list,
which is Never Bet the Devil Your head, because this is like a bit of a polemic
about, sorry, I don't mean to sound like a bimbo,
but what does that mean?
What's a polemic?
So a polemic is basically like a a piece of writing that attacks an idea,
like a critical, critical piece of writing.
Gotcha.
So in this Never bet the Devil your head.
And the part of the problem with reading poem from like a couple of 100 years ago
is that we don't have that cultural context and we don't know what he's
really pushing back against.
And you have to read further reading to kind of get to that point.
But this piece, part of what it's doing is pushing back
on the idea that like literature needs to have a moral.
It needs to end with a lesson essentially for the reader.
And yeah, the the whole point of this story is,
is ironically, the moral is don't have a moral.
It kind of is.
It kind of does have a moral, yes.
Ironically.
Did you read this one?
I did, Yeah.
Yeah.
It's completely stupid.
Yeah.
I think he got a bit carried away with himself in this one.
But basically he's talking about this character who's always betting everyone
everything but not following through.
And he's basically his catch phrase is I'll bet the devil my head that whatever.
And so he says it out loud that he's going to bet the devil his head that he
can jump over this style and this little creepy dudes like, sorry, what was that?
But you said just now and he's like I said, I'd bet the devil my head.
He's like, OK, let's shake on it.
Yeah.
And so he does this running jump over the style and chops his head off like on a
pole.
He like, nails himself on a pole and his head
comes clean off, which is amazing.
Like, imagine running so fast you knocked your
head off on a pole.
Yeah, so completely stupid.
But I think a Poe himself is a bit of a gambler.
So I think he resonated with this gambler character and just completely overplayed
this idea that it's wrong to gamble.
I don't know how you felt about it.
I felt like it was pretty frivolous.
It felt pretty frivolous.
But look, reading into like, some of the commentary and analysis
around this story, like, this is Chris's description of the story
and Chris being the curator of the Poe Museum.
It's a short story making fun of the transcendentalists,
of which we have no concept today.
You know, they're not a part of our lives.
So we don't read that deeper meaning.
And like, we don't read the sarcasm and the the
critique out of the story.
We we take it as a frivolous story.
Yeah.
True, you're not getting like all the in you
appreciate it.
Yeah, yeah, totally.
So the next story Hopfrog maybe has some problematic.
It is so problematic it it does not fly in 2026,
which is what I love most of all about it.
And my friend Pat and hi to Pat if you're listening.
She loves problematic stuff.
It just tickles her in this this way of like loving the fact that you can't get
away with it.
So I think she'd really like it.
But there's just a lot of highly racist and horrible reference.
I don't think anyone there's body shaming, body shaming.
It's all about ableism.
Yeah, everything.
Tick, tick, tick.
But this one is about basically a court jester kind of revenge.
Yeah.
You could see this plot taking place in like, A Game of Thrones.
100%, yeah.
And it's very dark and pretty crazy.
I quite enjoyed that one.
I am in my revenge era, so I did enjoy that.
But basically, let's put it this way.
The king has his little jester who everyone calls Hopfrog.
So just insert your own imagination as, yeah, like what his challenges might be.
And the king roasts him.
But the king just thinks everything is funny.
Like, the King's just here for a good time.
And basically Hopfrog latches onto that.
And he's like, OK, well, I'm going to beat you.
Your own game kind of thing.
And so the King's like, oh, we're going to have this masquerade ball.
And but I want I want to really just trick everyone and be so funny and
amazing.
Like give me all your ideas basically.
And hot frog is like, OK, here's what you have to do.
You have to scare everyone.
So basically what he does is he gets the king to come to this party late and sort
of scare everyone because everyone is so ******* naive that a dude coming in with
like a wolf mask or whatever it was he had.
They're probably all drunk.
They're drunk as **** to be fair, but like they're like, Oh my God,
it's real.
I'm just a naive person.
I don't understand that.
Like a bit of a costume is not an animal.
So anyway, they're all freaking out and the King's
loving himself sick because he scared everyone at his own party.
But then hot Frog, meanwhile is like, oh, anyways.
And then he hooks the king onto like the chandelier and hoists him up.
And the king and his mates, who is chained all together.
That's part of the reason he's like, oh, you've got to be chained together.
It's going to be so much more funny if you're all chained together.
And they're so dumb.
They're like, OK, great idea.
Anyway, so he hoists them all up and then
basically he just sets them on fire and they're just like burning,
Yeah in the sky.
And everyone's like, oh **** you know, like this is a bit dramatic.
Yeah.
I mean, look at the in their defence, this was pre Internet,
but they were really bored.
They were like entertainers.
They've got no jobs.
They just sit around.
They're like, do something, just gotta make your own stuff, films.
And it's like when you don't have all got to be chained up and he's they're like,
yes, something do that, please.
Love of God, I'm only going to live to 40 years old.
I'm going to make the most of it.
Yeah.
I mean, so that story was just on every level a
problem.
But love a bit of revenge.
Yeah.
And Speaking of revenge, the next story, The Cask of Amontillado,
that was actually the first one I read.
And when I say I'm in revenge era, like, you know, you know,
I don't need to share it on air, but I feel like you're avenge era.
Do you want to be added to my list?
Please tell me more.
Say, where does it have a start date?
Or is it just kind of been building from the start?
Listen, I don't know, it comes and goes, but I'm definitely I'm vibing with it at
the moment.
It's it's a predominant feeling at the moment.
And so I read the cask of Amontillado.
And if you are feeling revenge, if you are feeling like someone's done
you wrong, you got to read the story.
It makes you feel so good.
You're like, this is what I need to do in my life.
This is, this is basically a blueprint for how I
should behave, which is to basically lure the villain
down into your catacombs and wall them in to die.
Yeah.
And look, this is the one that we called out for
the single effect moments.
Like this whole idea of being in the in the catacombs, It's moist.
There's also a lot of coughing that's happening in there,
like coughing and spluttering and moisture and just like, yeah,
you really feel the mould.
It's very damp.
He talks about the mould, I think.
I feel like the mould is mentioned specifically, and if it's not,
it's definitely alluded to.
But they're walking through and there's all the bones in there with the proper
catacombs with all the skeletons and everything.
I guess I had to Google it so I didn't know what a cask of a Monteado was.
And it's basically like a big barrel of wine,
a particular type of wine called a monteado.
It's like a barrel of Penfolds or something.
I'm not sure about Penfolds.
That might be going a bit far.
It's a fancy, expensive wine that is hard to come by.
And he's saying to this guy, oh, you should come try it because I really
value your opinion.
And I know you're such a connoisseur.
And the guy's like, oh, I ******* am a connoisseur.
And he's in there immediately.
So if you know someone who's a massive ****** that's how to get him into your
catacombs.
And then, yeah, I mean, I should have said spoiler alert about 10
minutes ago, but basically, that's all right.
I think the statute of imitations have passed.
I've got in my notes for this one that it's interesting that we never learn.
Like why his main character?
Why does he hate this guy?
And, and he's seeking because he's a ******.
But we don't, we don't know.
We don't get told.
So I think as readers, we get to imprint our own little revenge
fantasy on this character and think of our own reasons.
I'm thinking of some reasons right now.
OK, so the next one, William Wilson, I have not read.
Well, it was 8000 words, so I gave it a little bit of a pass as
well.
But I have read Berenice.
So according to Chris, this was Pose first Horror Story,
which is cool of a bit of horror.
And they all have sort of macabre horror sort of themes as well.
But this one is about basically a dude who marries his cousin, which you know,
I'm sure is a little bit autobiographical for Poe.
But his cousin's like this beautiful frolicking, like lovely,
full of life kind of girl basically.
And he's kind of this morose dude.
And again, I'm sure this is just a little bit
autobiographical about Poe.
But she becomes ill and as a result, she starts wasting away.
She's got some sort of wasting illness and she and she just loses all this way
and she loses her lustful life and it's very sad.
So it touches on this idea of monomania, which is kind of like an obsession in one
thing to the point where it's kind of driving you mad.
But like, in every other respect, you're fine.
But this one thing is really getting to you.
And so obviously, you know, it's traumatised by what's happening to
his wife, but he gets really fixated.
He sees this vision of her and it's not clear whether it's really her or just her
and his imagination, but he becomes like obsessed with her
teeth and they creep him out massively.
And it's a beautifully creepy description.
It's quite evocative and impressive the way he describes these teeth.
But he's he becomes obsessed with them.
And then Berenice dies and so he goes to her in her bed and there's this horrible
moment where he goes in the curtains of the bed and and he's becomes horrified
and, you know, sort of runs away and and she's buried.
And then he kind of goes into this trance.
So he keeps talking about going into these trances.
And again, I think this might have been a little bit
autobiographical because I think he did have epilepsy,
at least that's what I gather.
And he would sort of go into these trance like States and so.
The character in this story is sort of in this trance,
and then one of the servants wakes him up and he's like, so anyway,
your dead wife has been like dug up and she wasn't dead.
And anyway, all her teeth are missing.
And he opens this little container next to him and it's full of her teeth.
So he's like, dug her up and pulled all her teeth out.
And she wasn't dead.
She was herself, like had an epileptic fit or was in,
you know, a trance like stayed herself and wasn't
in fact dead.
So it's, it's incredibly creepy.
It starts with her having this creepy effect,
but then he's the one who kind of is the evil one in the end.
So it, I don't know, it's kind of beautiful the way he
describes things.
And it's definitely incredibly creepy.
But I don't know, it's impressive to be able to creep
people out.
I think it's hard to creep people.
Yeah, these days it's hard to kind of impress
on someone enough to make them feel creeped out.
But he he achieved it.
I don't know.
Why are teeth creepy?
They are, though.
Well, they're bones.
They're visible bones.
Visible bones.
Reminder that, like, there's a skull.
Anyway, we've all got skulls in our bodies.
So the next story.
King Pest, did you read this one?
Yeah.
Also problematic.
Good fun.
I mean, at this point, I feel like I'm just giving a little bit
of a summary and you can go and see which ones interest you.
King Pest is about these two sailors who go on.
They really liked hockey as well.
It was weird.
No, it's about these two sailors who are on
land and they go to the pub and then they can't pay for their beer or whatever.
And then they get chased out of the pub and they get chased into this area that's
been like locked off because of, I guess the plague or whatever,
whatever pestilence it is.
So all the houses are abandoned and you're not supposed to go down there,
but like they're drunk as **** and they're just running around.
They're like, whatever, we're fine.
And there's like rotting corpses and the houses are falling apart.
Like you're getting this really rotting vibe from the story and then they like
bust into this house and there's just this company of I think it's 6 like
really ******* weird people.
And each of them has a very distinctive feature about their face that is very
memorable.
So one's got a really long and flexible nose.
The other's got massive ears that pretty much go up to the ceiling.
One's got a mouth that's just like ripped her face in half basically.
And like her earring gets into her mouth because it's so close to her ear.
Like they've each just got these really over exaggerated parts of their faces,
very creepy and weird.
And they're all just drunk and talking about the wine and talking about, hey,
how come you guys are here?
This is our mate's place.
Why you and our mate's place and all this stuff?
But like the weirdos there are like, no, we are royalty and this is King pest and
this is Queen pest.
And we're all just like, this is our, our realm basically.
And there's really no point to the story.
But basically like they Chuck one of the sailors into like a barrel of wine or
something.
Like, it's like a punch, like a punch bowl,
but it's so big that he's fits in and starts drowning,
and then his mate comes in to save him and tips it over,
and then they all drown in the punch.
All right.
So it's just completely bizarre, completely just creepy and gross and
weird.
But, you know, I enjoyed it.
So Chris's description for this is a comedy so dark that Robert Louis
Stevenson said that whoever could write it had ceased to be human,
which is just amazing praise.
Yeah.
Like, go for it.
I mean, that's the thing.
It doesn't sound like it has any kind of moral to it or any kind of to it.
It's just like, hey, watch this.
Yeah, this is ****** ** 100%.
That's exactly what it is, and it's good fun.
So the next one I read on this list was The Telltale Heart.
And actually this is the first one I read, I think just to refamiliarize myself with
this.
And I realised I had read it as well as just kind of absorbing the plot from The
Simpsons.
Again, The Simpsons references the diorama,
but yeah, this was one again, the single effect at work.
And for me, like that sound, it's it's the sound, it's the tapping,
it's all of those things that kind of really permeate that story.
That story as well, I feel is just such a solid concept.
Like it's just such a cohesive, like it's memorable.
Yeah, cool idea.
You're like, well, that's done now that idea.
But this idea of being haunted by your misdeeds.
Now, interestingly, one of the stories in our Flesh fiction
Volume 1, yes.
Is the Telltale ****.
Yes, and fashioned after this story, but with a bit of a different intent.
But I feel, you know, similarly entertaining, Yes.
But you know, the second story that we've spoken about
that involves someone or something being bricked in behind a wall.
So was this a thing at the time?
Is this like what you did or is this just a Poe?
I think there was a bit of a fixation about being buried alive.
I think that was something people, people were worried about.
Like you imagine now the things people worry about because they're in the Daily
Mail or because they're being pushed by Fox News or whatever as being like a real
and immediate threat.
And maybe at the time, the idea of being buried alive was
something that the media and people in general were kind of overthinking and
worrying about.
Yeah, it could have been, but it also could have been legit because
the quality of doctors and, you know, medical knowledge might have been like,
this person's dead and no, no, they're asleep.
Just.
I was just really drunk.
Oh, dear.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, clearly it was something that he thought
a lot about.
So I think that had something to do with that for sure.
All right, so the next one, the black cat, again, another very brick story.
And yeah.
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
I ******* love this story.
This was probably one of my top stories.
And you have a black cat and it scared the **** out of me just earlier.
The wall there, it did haunting me, you might say.
And I don't want to ruin this one, but it's really good.
This is really, really good.
What he did really well was this kind of the idea of someone who's lost the plot
but believably like, who's just kind of been swept away in
their own thoughts to the point where they no longer make sense.
Yeah, so he kills the cat and he's kind of
****** ** about it.
But like, so we should because he just, he, it was, he lost her.
He like really lost her.
He didn't just kind of accidentally killed the cat.
He lost his mind and he aggressively and very psychotically killed the cat.
He did.
And it was, it was kind of inexcusable what he did.
But also he had this weird, like, jealous rage about the cat.
He's like, **** you, cat.
Look at you the way you kind of look at me.
And yeah, he's got really obsessed with it,
as if the cat was out to get him.
And he's like, yeah, well, I'll show you who's boss kind of things
like May.
It's a cat.
Yeah.
Or is it?
I felt like PO lost me as a like you lost yourself a customer,
you lost yourself A and someone who would then like identify with the protagonist.
It was just like, whoa, dude, I don't know.
I I did.
Are you identified?
I don't know.
I think he does a really great job of making it feel real.
You know, he just got carried away.
It was the opposite of a save the cat moment.
I felt both of that protagonist, though, I was like, not on board.
Got you.
Fair enough.
I mean, as the owner of a black cat, I can see how that might have been a
little bit triggering for you.
Yes.
So the next story, a descent into the maelstrom, which again,
atmospheric single effect focused on the weather and the waves.
And, and one thing I wanted to just mention
about this story, about all of post stories really,
which is worth mentioning is the fact that none of them, to my knowledge,
unless I've missed something, none of them are supernatural.
They're all very grounded in reality.
And well, I think there's a hint often of the
supernatural, but he's kind of made an allowance for it
to be real or imagined.
You know, like for example, in the black cat,
it's kind of suggested that the cat's haunting him and coming back from the
dead.
But you can imagine a real explanation for that.
But the character believes it.
The character believes it, but like there's never a ghost and
there's never a supernatural character in the stories.
It's all it always comes back to reality and always comes back to problem solving.
But then there's like never bet the devil your head and there's like a little devil
dude is like like, yeah, you know that we touch on it.
There's like it's possible that there's a real world explanation,
but it is also equally possible that there's something extra going on.
Look, I feel like Poe was quite a sceptic
reading his writing when it comes to supernatural things.
He comes across as someone who was looking at things very logically,
and it would have taken a fair bit to push back on those prevailing ideas of
the time and write these stories that are strictly materialistic.
Let's say, you know, we're talking about horror stories.
They're not horror stories about ghosts, and they're horror stories about horror
stories about people who've got really ******* massive eyeballs that are so big
that they're unbelievably large.
That's just a like a, you know, freak show kind of idea.
You know what I mean?
Like, I think there's a point to be made.
And I think in horror, often in horror, there is the tendency to lean into the
supernatural.
And that doesn't happen here.
It's as you say, like, yes, you can say that there are references to
that being like an idea, but there are always logical reasons that
are put forward.
And the characters do approach these situations rationally and try to get out
of them.
Like the pit in the pendulum.
The character is basically like applying scientific method to try and get out of
his predicament of being in this pit as a pendulum is trying to like slice him in
very Indiana Jones.
Yeah.
I mean, unfortunately the end is a bit of a Deus
Ex machina where he's just like, pulled out of the situation and.
And so MacGyver.
And it's so it's not, it's not Indiana Jones, it's MacGyver.
Yeah, well, he does he he does his best to to solve
the problem, but it is out of his control.
And luckily the last minute, like someone's like, no, you're saved.
But yeah, overall I thought that was quite
refreshing that a writer of this time was so grounded in reality.
Hmm.
So in addition to this list, and I'm not sure that I published the
full list from Chris, I can't recall if I summarised it a
little bit, but what I did was because I was super
busy, I'm like, you forgot to eat.
I totally forgot to eat, first of all.
And second of all, I started listening to a podcast where
this guy was doing some readings of Poe's work, so I strongly recommend it.
I really enjoyed it.
Doesn't have everything.
It is called the Complete Works of Edgar Allan Poe and I found it on Spotify and
it's read by **** Barr, which is an interesting name.
Sorry **** but I really enjoyed his voice.
He's American.
And can we get **** Barr to read Telltale ****?
I'll have to ask him.
He's like a real estate agent or something.
And I was listening to a bunch of the stories and I listened to and really
enjoyed The Mask of the Red Death.
So Black Cat was one of them, but the Mask of the Red Death was another
one.
And Oh my God, that story is so good.
And especially in this era of like we've post COVID times and all this stuff and
just rich versus poor and all of these ideas just coming into the again,
like not really a revenge tale, but I guess himself as the author
imagining like this untimely death of maybe someone who represented the elite.
And it's just again, really messed up and just so vibey.
It feels like you're it's very cinematic.
You feel like you're in the room and it's very visual.
You know, it talks about these different rooms and
the different colours and the stained glass and the the light shining in.
And it's just completely an experience to read it,
but also a really fascinating story.
So I really strongly recommend The Mask of the Red Death as well.
He also read some poems and one of the ones that's memorable to me just by the
title alone is called The Bells.
And it's incredibly repetitive, this poem.
But what's interesting about it is how he mimics the sound of church bells through
his language in the poem and church bells very repetitive.
But does this experience as if you're listening to Bell's chiming while you're
listening to the poem.
And I think that's, it's not one of my favourites by any
means of his poems, but it's a very, very interesting effect that he creates
with the language and well worth listening to,
probably more so than reading.
And I do think Poe's work really lends itself to the audio format.
I do think we should read 1.
So I think the best story to read is The Cask of a Monteado,
referencing a few times.
If we're talking about effect, The Cask of a Monteado is probably the
one that got me.
Yeah, more than most.
And you've drawn the the straw, the long or the short.
You decide.
Will you help me?
Will you play Fortunato?
Yeah, I'll play the the ********.
Yeah.
Alright.
I can just live out my little revenge fantasy on you now.
Great.
Alright, so here is The Cask of a Monteado by
Edgar Allan Poe.
The 1000 injuries of Fortunato I had borne as best I could,
but when he ventured upon insult I vowed revenge.
You, who so well know the nature of my soul,
will not suppose, however, that I gave utterance to a threat.
At length I would be avenged.
This was a point definitively settled, but the very definitiveness with which it
was resolved precluded the idea of risk.
I must not only punish, but punish with impunity.
A wrong is unredressed.
When retribution overtakes its redressal, it is equally unredressed when the
avenger fails to make himself felt as such to him who has done the wrong.
It must be understood that neither by word nor deed had I given fortunate her
cause to doubt my goodwill.
I continued, as was my want, to smile in his face,
and he did not perceive that my smile now was at the thought of his immolation.
He had a weak point, this Fortunato, although in other regards he was a man to
be respected and even feared, he prided himself on his connoisseurship
in wine.
Few Italians have the true virtuoso spirit.
For the most part their enthusiasm is adopted to suit the time and opportunity
to practise imposture upon the British and Austrian millionaires in painting,
and Jameree Fortunato, like his countrymen, was a quack.
But in the matter of old wines he was sincere.
In this respect I did not differ from him materially.
I was skilful in the Italian vintages myself and bought largely whenever I
could.
It was about dusk, 1 evening, during the supreme madness of the
carnival season, that I encountered my friend.
He accosted me with excessive warmth, for he had been drinking much.
The man wore motley.
He had on a tight fitting party stripe dress and his head was surmounted by the
conical cap and bells.
I was so pleased to see him that I thought I should never have done wringing
his hand.
I said to him, My dear Fortunato, you are luckily met.
How remarkably well you are looking today.
But I have received a pipe of what passes for a monteado, and I have my doubts.
How, said he, A monteado?
A pipe?
Impossible.
And in the middle of the carnival?
I have my doubts, I replied.
And I was silly enough to pay the full la monteado price without consulting you in
the matter.
You were not to be found, and I was fearful of losing a bargain.
A monteado, I have my doubts.
A monteado, and I must satisfy them.
A monteado?
As you're engaged.
I'm on my way to Lucasie.
If anyone has a critical turn, it is he.
He will tell me Lukasey cannot tell a monteado from Sherry,
and yet some fools will have it that his taste is a match for your own.
Come, let us go.
Whither?
To your vaults, my friend.
No, I will not impose upon your good nature.
I perceive you have an engagement, Lukasey.
I have no engagement.
Come, my friend, No, it is not the engagement,
but the severe cold with which I perceive you are afflicted.
The faults are insufferably damp.
They are encrusted with Nita.
Let us go.
Nevertheless.
The cold is merely nothing.
A monteado you have been imposed upon.
And As for Lucchesi, he cannot distinguish Sherry from a
monteado.
Thus speaking, Fortunato possessed himself of my arm,
putting on a mask of black silk, and drawing a rock a layer closely about
my person.
I suffered him to hurry me to my palazzo.
There were no attendants at home.
They had absconded to make Mary in honour of the time.
I had told them that I should not return until the morning,
and had given them explicit orders not to stir from the house.
These orders were sufficient, I well knew, to ensure their immediate disappearance,
1 and all.
As soon as my back was turned, I took from their sconces to Flambeau,
and, giving 1 to Fortunato, bowed him through several suites of rooms
to the archway that led into the vaults.
I passed down a long and winding staircase,
requesting him to be cautious as he followed.
We came at length to the foot of the descent,
and stood together on the damp ground of the catacombs of the Montressors.
The gate of my friend was unsteady, and the bells upon his cap jingled as he
strode of the pipe, Said he.
It is farther on, said I, but observe the white web work which
gleams from these cabin walls.
He turned towards me and looked into my eyes with two filmy orbs that distilled
the room of intoxication.
Knighter, he asked at length.
Knighter, I replied.
How long have you had that cough?
My poor friend found it impossible to reply for many minutes.
It's nothing, he said at last.
Come, I said with decision, we will go back.
Your health is precious.
You are rich, respected, admired, beloved.
You are happy as once I was.
You are a man to be missed.
For me it is no matter.
We will go back.
You will be ill and I cannot be responsible.
Besides, there is lucase enough, he said.
The cough is is a mere nothing.
It will not kill me.
I shall not die of a cough.
True, true, I replied, and indeed I had no intention of alarming
you unnecessarily.
But you should use all proper caution.
A draught of this Medoc will defend us from the damps.
Here I knocked off the neck of a bottle, which I drew from a long row of its
fellows that lay upon the mould.
Drink, I said, presenting him the wine.
He raised it to his lips with a leer.
He paused and nodded to me familiarly while his bells jingled.
I drink, he said to the buried, that repose around us,
and I to your long life.
He again took my arm and we proceeded.
These vaults, he said, are extensive.
The Montresors, I replied.
We're a great and numerous family.
I forget your arms.
A huge human foot door in a field Azure, the foot crushes a serpent rampant,
whose fangs are embedded in the heel.
And the motto Nemo me and Pune la sesset.
Good, he said.
The wine sparkled in his eyes and the bells jingled.
My own fancy grew warm with the Medoc.
We had passed through walls of piled bones,
with casts and puncheons intermingling into the inmost recesses of the catacombs.
I paused again, and this time I made bold to seize
Fortunato by an arm above the elbow.
The nighter, I said.
See.
It increases.
It hangs like Moss upon the vaults.
We are below the river's bed.
The drops of moisture trickle among the bones.
Come, we will go back here.
It is too late.
Your cough.
It's nothing, he said.
Let us go on.
But first another draught of the Medoc.
I broke and reached him.
A flisson of de grave.
He emptied it out of breath.
His eyes flashed with a fierce light.
He laughed and threw the bottle upwards with a gesticulation.
I did not understand.
I looked at him in surprise.
He repeated the movement, a grotesque one.
Do you not comprehend?
He said.
Not I, I replied.
Then you are not of the Brotherhood.
How?
You're not of the Masons?
Yes, yes, I said.
Yes, yes, you impossible.
A Mason.
A Mason, I replied.
A sign, he said.
It is this, I answered, producing A trowel from beneath the folds
of my rocalier.
You jest, he exclaimed, recoiling a few paces.
But let us proceed to the Amontillado.
Be it so, I said, replacing the tool beneath the cloak and
again offering him my arm.
He leaned upon it heavily.
We continued our route in search of the Amontillado.
We passed through a range of low arches, descended, passed on,
and descending again, arrived at a deep crypt in which the
foulness of the air caused our flambo rather to glow than flame.
At the most remote end of the crypt there appeared another less spacious Its walls
had been lined with human remains piled to the vault overhead in the fashion of
the great catacombs of Paris.
Three sides of this interior crypt were still ornamented in this manner.
From the 4th the bones had been thrown down and lay promiscuously upon the earth,
forming at one point a mound of some size.
Within the wall thus exposed by the displacing of the bones,
we perceived a still interior recess in depth,
about four feet in width 3IN height 6 or 7.
It seemed to have been constructed for no especial use within itself,
but formed merely the interval between two of the colossal supports of the roof
of the catacombs, and was backed by one of their
circumscribing walls of solid granite.
It was in vain that Fortunato, uplifting his dull torch,
endeavoured to pry into the depths of the recess.
It's termination the feeble light did not enable us to see.
Proceed, I said.
Herein is the Amontillado.
As for Lucasi, he is an ignoramus, interrupted my friend,
as he stepped unsteadily forward, while I followed immediately at his heels.
In an instant he had reached the extremity of the niche, and,
finding his progress of rested by the rock, stood stupidly bewildered.
A moment more and I had feted him to the granite.
In its surface were two iron staples, distant from each other about two feet
horizontally.
From one of these depended a short chain, from the other a padlock throwing the
links about his waist.
It was but the work of a few seconds to secure it.
He was too much astounded to resist.
Withdrawing the key, I stepped back from the recess.
Pass your hand, I said over the wall.
You cannot help feeling the knighter.
Indeed, it is very damp.
Once more let me implore you to return.
No, then I will positively leave you.
But I must first render you all the little attentions in my power.
The Amontillado ejaculated my friend, not yet recovered from his astonishment.
True, I replied the Amontillado.
As I said these words, I busied myself among the pile of bones
of which I have before spoken.
Throwing them aside, I soon uncovered a quantity of building
stone and mortar.
With these materials, and with the aid of my trowel,
I began vigorously to wall up the entrance of the niche.
I had scarcely laid the first tier of my masonry,
when I discovered that the intoxication of Fortunato had in great measure worn
off.
The earliest indication I had of this was a low moaning cry from the depth of the
recess.
It was not the cry of a drunken man.
There was then a long and obstinate silence.
I laid the second tier, and the 3rd, and the 4th,
and then I heard the furious vibrations of the chain.
The noise lasted for several minutes, during which,
that I might hearken to it with the more satisfaction,
I ceased my labours and sat down upon the bones.
When at last the clanking subsided, I resumed the trowel,
and finished without interruption the 5th, the 6th, and the 7th tier.
The wall was now nearly upon a level with my breast.
I again paused, and, holding the flambo over the Mason,
work through a few feeble rays upon the figure within.
A succession of loud and shrill screams, bursting suddenly from the throat of the
chained form, seemed to thrust me violently back.
For a brief moment I hesitated.
I trembled.
Unsheathing my rapier, I began to gripe with it about the recess,
but the thought of an instant reassured me.
I placed my hand upon the solid fabric of the catacombs and felt satisfied.
I reapproached the wall.
I replied to the yells of him who clamoured.
I re echoed.
I aided, I surpassed them in volume and strength.
I did this and the clamour grew still.
It was now midnight and my task was drawing to a close.
I had completed the 8th, the 9th, and the 10th tier.
I had finished a portion of the last and the 11th.
There remained but a single stone to be fitted and plastered in.
I struggled with its weight.
I placed it partially in its destined position.
But now they came out of the niche.
A low laugh that erected the hairs upon my head was succeeded by a sad voice,
which I had difficulty in recognising as that of the noble Fortunato.
The voice said.
A very good joke, indeed, an excellent jest.
We will have many of which laugh about it at the Palazzo over our wine.
The Monteado, I said.
Yes, the Amontillado.
But is it not getting late?
Will not they be awaiting us at the Palazzo?
The Lady Fortunato and the rest?
Let us be gone.
Yes, I said.
Let us be gone, for the love of God, Montressa.
Yes, I said, for the love of God.
But to these words I hearkened in vain for a reply.
I grew impatient.
I called aloud.
Fortunato, no answer.
I called again.
Fortunato, no answer.
Still I thrust a torch through the remaining aperture,
and let it fall within.
They came forth in return, only a jingling of the bells.
My heart grew sick on account of the dampness of the catacombs.
I hastened to make an end of my labour.
I forced the last stone into its position.
I plastered it up against the new masonry.
I re erected the old rampart of bones for the half of a century.
No mortal has disturbed them.
Impache requires ****.
Well, thank you, Edgar Allan Poe for your story.
Think we chose a good one there to read.
It had a few mentions of the niche.
So I feel like there was a bit of a promotion.
Yeah, our new Patreon, 100%.
You know, that's what he was all about, the head of his time.
Just just guys, just come step into our niche like we
promised not to like trap you in there and kill you pinky swear.
So we hope you enjoyed that reading, just a little little taste of Amontillado
and hopefully that encourages you to sample the whole cask.
And if you did enjoy it, then I would encourage you to get
yourself down to the Edgar Allan Poe Museum.
We have a little message from Chris.
So Chris, as we mentioned earlier, is the curator of the Edgar Allan Poe
Museum who was so generous with his time as to give us this wonderful list.
And we've got a little message from Chris.
Now let's play it.
Edgar Allan Poe has spread his dark shadow across the globe.
But if you'd like to find out the origins of the master of madness,
melancholy murder in the macabre, you'll have to come to Richmond, VA,
to see the Poe Museum, the world's finest collection of Edgar
Allan Poe's things.
We have everything from the socks from his feet to the hair in his head,
piece of his coffin.
It's the closest thing you'll get to meeting Edgar Allan Poe in the flesh.
Find out more at poemuseum.org.
So thanks again, Chris.
And yeah, if any of our listeners are anywhere near
Richmond, VA, the East Coast of the US, check it out.
Yeah, it looks pretty cool.
I was on the website.
They do different events and stuff.
I'm a bit Jelly, actually.
I'd love to visit.
It's a long way.
I mean, you can have a little looky loo and a bit
of coffin.
That's just a normal thing to do.
A bit of his coffin.
Yeah.
It's a story in itself, isn't it?
Just some of his teeth in a jar.
It's totally normal.
It's fine.
The place I would wanna get drunk at.
Let's put it that way.
They have, like, drinks.
Do they?
They do.
I.
That sounds fun.
Don't go too deep into the category.
So thank you, Chris.
And thank you, Edgar Allen Poe.
But now it's my turn to recommend something to you.
I'm a bit out of practise.
It's been quite a while.
A long time.
The last thing I recommended was adolescence.
Oh, wow.
Like a year ago.
Yeah.
Right.
OK.
Oh, God.
What have you been brewing up since then?
Yeah, actually I had a book that is on my to
rec list, but I don't want to read a book, OK.
And so it was kind of a both of us read type of thing,
but I think we need a little bit of a break and we need a bit of fun.
OK, I'm going to recommend you ATV show that
I enjoyed.
I haven't watched it for a while, so I'll watch it again with you.
OK.
On a past episode we spoke about recommendations and TV shows,
can't remember which one it was.
And someone, maybe more than one person, actually recommended this TV show.
And I remember you hadn't seen it at the time.
So I'm hoping you still haven't seen it.
And maybe I can.
I never watch anything.
So I think you'd like it.
OK.
And the show is Fleabag.
OK?
No, I haven't.
OK.
My mum's mentioned Fleabag actually.
Hmm.
Is this are they Irish or am I getting that confused?
No, I don't think so.
It's basically it's a show that is based on AI Believe,
a stage show by Phoebe Waller Bridge and adapted for ATV series.
And the first season was great and then she came back for like the second season,
which is it was even greater.
And I think you'll actually love it so much.
So you're purposely recommending me something I'm going to enjoy very out of
character.
Exactly.
It's a bit unusual for me.
So Fleabag, there's two seasons, but they're only like UK seasons,
so 6 episodes each and I think they're like 30 minute episodes.
So it's not a huge commitment and I think you'll love it.
I'm overhyping it now.
Now I'm like setting you up for failure.
You are.
Because, you know, I've got ODD.
So we'll talk about that in about nine months time, apparently.
I think we'll try and get back into a regular rhythm, regular team.
Inverted commas.
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, I'm excited.
That sounds really good.
But now you've reminded me that I should ask.
Like we've just been talking about PO and I recommended that to you.
Like, what's your overarching vibe?
Were you happy?
Were you like, how did you feel about that?
True.
We didn't do the stars summary.
We should have done that.
How many stars do I give PO3 stars?
It was good.
Look, we talk about PO like literally all the
time.
Literally every single episode we harp on about PO,
and it's been a real oversight on our part not to have spoken about him before.
So it's been great reading his stories and really kind of connecting with the
person who brought us the single effect that we so thoroughly love to talk about.
I think going forward, when I do think about single effect,
I will think actually of Pose writing and not just his words,
because these stories really do exemplify what is meant by single effect,
and they're fun stories as well.
So I'm glad I read them and kind of had this opportunity to go back to the source.
So 5 Raven wow, five.
OK, all right, well, I'm glad you loved it.
MMM.
So before we wrap up, just a reminder about our Patreon.
If you head on down, click the link in the episode notes and
check that out if you are interested.
What else is coming up?
What else we've got on?
I've got a bunch of workshops coming up, which I'm really excited about South.
There's different ones.
There are different durations couple of hours full day, like whatever it might be.
You can find all of the details of those on We've got a new sort of what's on page
on our website.
We do so dates, times, locations and of course the pricing for
each of those as well from each of those various organisations.
But I'm really excited.
It's always a really lively time.
I feel like it's quite inspirational for me as well.
We're all just talking about what we're passionate about,
learning some new tips and tricks and it's suitable for anyone.
It doesn't matter if you're new to flash fiction or if you've been doing it a long
time.
I think the experience of working through those ideas seems to have, you know,
an effect on everyone.
So I'm, I'm really, really looking forward to that and I hope
some of you will be able to join me.
I do, as we established early in this episode,
love to meet my friends in real life.
So hopefully we get that opportunity.
And I've sat in on one of your courses as well.
And it's a lot of fun for everyone involved.
Yeah, I think it's it's a good vibe.
It's always a good time.
I think just anytime you're switching off from the day to day and delving into your
creativity is always just a really refreshing experience.
And we'll be back soon with more flash fiction content and more regular episodes.
All the stuff that you love.
But until then, right on, right on.
Thank you for listening to Not Quite Right.
If you'd like to reach us via email or follow us on social media,
you can find all the links on our website notquiterightpodcast.com that's WRITE.
And if you enjoyed the show, we'd love it if you could leave us a five
star review on your favourite podcasting app.
Something doesn't seem quite right.
So you asked about the Allen thing before that Edgar Allen and you're like if you'd
pick the name Allen what a **** ***.
Anyway that's his adoptive parents name.
So when he was like 2 his parents ****** off.
Like I think his mum died and his dad abandoned her.
They were artistes, actors I think, and his dad abandoned the mum and then
the mum passed away and then an adoptive family took him in and so he took their
surname.
All right, Which was Alan.
So put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Sorry, didn't mean to offend you.
You did.
You've got popcorn on your shoulder.
So I don't know.
I can't take you seriously.
It's gone now.
It's like having a chip on your shoulder, but it's popcorn.
I don't know what that says about you.
Is that popcorn on your shoulder or in depth?
About four feet in width, 3IN height, 6 or 7 ahead of his time.
I was the wine sparkled in his eyes and the bells jingled.
What kind of ******** is walking around with a jingly bell hat?
What he's wearing?
He's wearing like a ******* tights and bells and he's like, yeah, freaking.
She's not such a ********.
People still like man just got about bells.
I mean it's it's a carnival but like ******* take the hat off mate.
I'm totally on this guy's side if for no other reason than the hat.
He repeated the movement a grotesque 1.
Is he doing the **** *** motion?
Like what is he doing?
He's like he threw the bottle upwards with a gesticulation.
I did not understand.
I looked at him.
He threw the bottle up.
My do not come bad, not Dothy, not pick up what I put down.
We are in the catacombs, are we not?
What takes place in the catacombs stays.
This tale of revenge is taking an unexpected turn.
That's pretty sure.
I would be surprised we're not the fifth time.